To SUT or not to SUT?

mtemur

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Mar 26, 2019
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Anyway here I come, please read my post number 316 in this thread:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-sound-of-analog-the-sound-of-digital.31038/page-16

So for me today there is no superiority of vinyl over digital. Exist some other proofs additional to what I posted there but with that is enough.

So now I think could be time for I can learn from you. Thank's in advance.

I'm not in the position to teach anything to you or anybody. I'm here to share my experience and like to read other people's experiences.

I followed your suggestion and read your posts in thread
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-sound-of-analog-the-sound-of-digital.31038/

You may be like writing a lot but I can not say that you're saying much. it's all the basic technical talks. I don't say that they're unimportant but technical stuff is just not enough to describe the good sound. measurements done by engineers don't always guarantee good sound either.

for example you can not convince a regular electrical engineer about the difference between AC power cords. for him AC is AC and no power cord can make a difference in sound. or you can not convince a computer engineer that there is a difference between two ethernet cables. for him it's only ones and zeros they will measure the same, input and output are the same even the bits are the same.
I'm an engineer myself too but I believe you can not measure everything.
 

bonzo75

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The only thing I measure I always win the contest
 
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silviajulieta

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Jul 6, 2010
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México city. rauliruegas@hotmail.com
The proof the pudding is in the eating, not in assessing and measuring the ingredients.


Dear friend: Only if you are an expert in " pudin " flavors. Subjectivity is what impedes that each one of us and the high end can growing up but the AHEE is extremely happy with the kind of posts similar to yours.

I really don't care to much what " pudin " you like, my advice to you is that change of " pudin " and you will really discover a new " pudin " world that always existed but that AHEE always hidden it and still does it.

Every things in the audio world in in constant movement and changing, normally, for improve the human been life. The only " area " where nothing change because that AHEE is audio not high end because as you several gentlemans just think know high end when unfortunatelly have a misunderstood because till now they don't really know what in true means high end. Pity.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS.
 

silviajulieta

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2010
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México city. rauliruegas@hotmail.com
I believe you can not measure everything


Dear friend: again subjectivity that always is usele because behind it all gentlemans are rigth, no one can argue against subjectivity if it does not comes with facts/common sense proofs/measurements.

Btw, everything can be measured that we don't know how to measure everything and how and where do it does not means can't be measured.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS.
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
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Dear friend: Only if you are an expert in " pudin " flavors. Subjectivity is what impedes that each one of us and the high end can growing up but the AHEE is extremely happy with the kind of posts similar to yours.

I really don't care to much what " pudin " you like, my advice to you is that change of " pudin " and you will really discover a new " pudin " world that always existed but that AHEE always hidden it and still does it.

Every things in the audio world in in constant movement and changing, normally, for improve the human been life. The only " area " where nothing change because that AHEE is audio not high end because as you several gentlemans just think know high end when unfortunatelly have a misunderstood because till now they don't really know what in true means high end. Pity.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS.
Raul, I don't think we really have different philosophies. I certainly don't claim to know high end at all. I just like cooking and eating puddings.;)
 

silviajulieta

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2010
364
14
323
México city. rauliruegas@hotmail.com
The only thing I measure I always win the contest

Dear friend and friends: your post gave me the opportunity to say why I love audio forums, any.

An audio forum is a " win to win " proposal for all of us where exist only winners never been/be there any single looser, no one is deafeated because is not a contest.

Inherently to all human beens are the competitive kind of feelings/emotions/attitudes and been competitive almost always ( like in an audio forum. ) we can to win and if not then we are " frustrated " for been deafeated.

Well, from some years now I understand and have the attitude that I can't lost even that other gentlemans can think they beated me and that " things " showed to all that I was deafeated.

How is that?: what could happens when we post " something " and other gentleman gave an statement that goes against my post and that he was/is rigth?:

I win because I was wrong on what I posted and the post of the other gentleman improved my knowledge level in the " subject " under discussion, so I don't losted but win.
What if he was wrong and confirmed by other gentlemans? well I win when confirmed that my information was rigth.

What if not posting in a thread I read something really new or that I did not understood before? I win too.

There are no way to lost if we have the rigth attitude and we are always willing to learn.

Again, an audio forum is not a contest and never must be a challenge for us but a great opportunity to learn or confirm what we already know.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS.
 

iaxel

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2016
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Anyone familiar with Entre ET-100/200/300 SUTs?
Are they related in any way to My Sonic Lab?
 
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dwhistance

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Feb 15, 2019
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Anyone familiar with Entre ET-100/200/300 SUTs?
Are they related in any way to My Sonic Lab?
I have an Entre ET-100 SUT. It's very flexible taking inputs from three arms and allowing a choice of 40x, 20x, 10x step up's (plus passthrough for MM cartridges) on any of those inputs. Because of it's flexibility I like mine very much, particularly when trying a new cartridge, though it can't compete with Dave Slagle's EMIA copper SUT's on sound quality in a direct comparison.

As far as I know there is no relationship between My Sonic Lab and Entre. I believe that Entre as a company was formed by some of the employees of Fidelity Research when that closed. I don't know where I found that information though as it's been a long time since I bought my SUT and researched it!

David Whistance
 

montesquieu

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Jan 27, 2019
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I have been an SUT enthusiast over many years and owned quite a few - AN S6c (Kondo era Audio Note), AN S4 (ANUK), Paravicni The Head TX4, Hashimoto HM7, Stevens & Billington TX103, EAR MC3, Audiorium A23 SPU version, Miyajima KSW, Altec 4722, UTCA12 and quite a few others, most recently the multi-adjustable Miyajima ETR-Stereo and ETR-Mono SUTs, and of course the internals SUTs in my Allnic H7000V and in my previous EAR 912.

I would still consider myself an SUT enthusiast in many circumstances but I had quite a change of opinion when I heard an Allnic HA3000 head amp in my system, after which bought my own HA5000 head amp (the HA3000's replacement, with inputs for two tonearms rather than one). This is way better than any previous head amp I've tried, valve or solidstate.

Anyway, in the months since this arrived I have since sold the Miyajima SUTs, and use the HA5000 with (among other things) a pair of My Sonic Lab cartridges, a Hyper Eminent and an Eminient Solo mono (see my previous write-up here https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-104s-and-mh-124s-tonearms.31616/#post-683539

Hopefully this direct experience of running MSL cartridges with head amps vs SUT might be useful, I don't know the OP's phono stage but can say that the Allnic pairing (HA5000 head amp and H7000V) works superbly with these cartridges and I have no intention of going back down the SUT route. Which is something I would never have expected myself to write.




 

wbass

Member
Jul 12, 2020
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@montesquieu Very interesting! I just added the H7000. So far I'm enjoying it with my Koetsu Black Goldline and SPU Synergy G, both into the internal SUTs.

Out of curiosity, which of the SUTs you owned previously did you most enjoy? And how did they compare to the internals on the Allnic and EAR?

I'll have to get ears on the HA3000/5000 at some point!
 

montesquieu

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Jan 27, 2019
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@montesquieu Very interesting! I just added the H7000. So far I'm enjoying it with my Koetsu Black Goldline and SPU Synergy G, both into the internal SUTs.

Out of curiosity, which of the SUTs you owned previously did you most enjoy? And how did they compare to the internals on the Allnic and EAR?

I'll have to get ears on the HA3000/5000 at some point!

I find that it's all about matching with SUTs. The best one I've ever heard was an Audio Note S9 (ANUK) used with an AN Io Ltd. My jaw dropped when it was swapped in in place of an S8 (itself very capable). Sadly out of my league in terms of price.

I found the HA5000 (gain 1:30 / 29db) to be extremely quite for an active device and worked best with every cartridge I tried down to about 0.2mv - an SPU Century (0.2mv) sounded really good - but that was about its effective limit. Below that, an SUT was consistently better. For example I had a Fidelity Research FR7 (2 ohm 0.15mV) and an Audio Note Io2 (1 ohm 0.05mV) at the time, both of these sounded best with the Miyajima ETR-Stereo (very flexible with ratios available from 1:5 to 1:100), which overall I would say is very slightly better than than the internals in the H7000V, though not by a huge margin - the Allnic internals really are very good.

If you were to ask me which in the list I miss most having around to play with, I would say the Hashimoto HM-7 - with the right cartridge this is extremely dynamic and brings out wonderful colour and detail - and the S&B TX103 which at its lower gain settings and a cartridge of reasonable output is not quite so dramatic as the Hashimoto, but nicely delicate and soulful. (I think this can now only be bought in the Music First Baby Classic Step-up, but mine was a well implemented custom version).
 
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iaxel

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Oct 25, 2016
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@montesquieu thanks for sharing.
It’s a coincidence that this has arrived a few days ago:
67802CE5-4C9F-41E7-B879-E9FF80DC28A3.jpeg

F64D7601-E7B8-4AFF-8416-04B3C67964EB.jpeg

Warming up for a comparison with the Pass XP-25.
 

bonzo75

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Have you changed the rectifier, iaxel?
 

montesquieu

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iaxel

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bonzo75

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Not yet. Mine came with a Sylvania 5U4G NOS.

You Should try RK 5u4g from KR. it's 400 quid or so. The difference in Allnic sound work rolling rectifiers is significant. It's also a change in character from stock recti. I haven't tried Sylvania with Allnic but tried with Lampi and KR / RK are much better.
 
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montesquieu

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Not yet. Mine came with a Sylvania 5U4G NOS

Mine came with the same Sylvania, which is actually pretty good. I think the previous model tended to arrive with a very ordinary Chinese tube in place, hence the regular advice to change the rectifier on these, which may not strictly be needed any more. Nevertheless on Kedar's advice I replaced with a new production KR - I did find this a worthwhile exercise.
 
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iaxel

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Oct 25, 2016
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You Should try RK 5u4g from KR. it's 400 quid or so. The difference in Allnic sound work rolling rectifiers is significant. It's also a change in character from stock recti. I haven't tried Sylvania with Allnic but tried with Lampi and KR / RK are much better.
Thanks Ked!
I’ll order one and try it out in due time.
So far, sounds very promising.
 

dwhistance

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
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I think it is instructive to see the specs of the cartridges Tom (Montesquieu) say's work best with his SUT's and compare them with the specs of the cartridges he is using with his head amp. I am inclined to think that most cartridges with "modern" specs (for example 0.5mV output, ohm impedance like the My Sonic Labs) will work best with a head amp whilst cartridges with "older" specs (like the FR-7 or Io 2 above) work best with SUT's. Most of my cartridges fall into the latter camp but I do have a few of the former and find that whilst they do work with my SUT's they need more experimentation with their loading requirements for best sound.
 

bonzo75

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Thanks Ked!
I’ll order one and try it out in due time.
So far, sounds very promising.

My suggestion is if you like it, great, but otherwise reserve judgement till you try the RK. It can change preference in the Allnic, as it is incredibly sensitive to a recti change.
 

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