It may look similar at first sight, but is far from beeing the same. The new one is milled from a single slab of aluminium, which is 10x more expensive to manufacture. The new enclosure not only looks much better and gives a very high quality feel, but also translates to better sonics.
Trinity - hype or is it a real deal ?
- Thread starter audioblazer
- Start date
It may look similar at first sight, but is far from beeing the same. The new one is milled from a single slab of aluminium, which is 10x more expensive to manufacture. The new enclosure not only looks much better and gives a very high quality feel, but also translates to better sonics.
And so many moving from BADA to Lampi on Audioshark forum, and that's even cheaper
Trinity is 40.000 euro, not 56.000 euro. $56k is US retail, in USD, not euro. TotalDac twelve can only be 28k euro, as it is sold factory direct. If it was sold through a regular distributors/dealers network, it would be double that. Berkely Reference DAC is not even available in Europe, so I'm not sure where did you get that price from.
And speaking of Berkeley, you probably know, that the BADA Alpha DAC series II and BADA Reference are 99% identical in terms of internal built (apart from the new milled enclosure) ? And guess what happened, after they introduced the aluminium enclosure - the price went up from $4500, to $16.000. Yes - that is FOUR fold price increase.
And BTW - where did you have a chance to compare Trinity to TotalDAC or BADA ? I only had the BADA Alpha series II DAC and TotalDAC D-1 Dual at home, and it was like comparing Porsche Turbo (Trinity) to Golf GTI (BADA and TotalDAC). From what I'm hearing, the new models are better though. I have never met anyone who had a chance to compare them side by side.
I do not agree with you, transformers, board and some components are clearly different even though the project in general is the same, although it seems a "makeup" and commercial operation.
as well as for trinity pre:
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/03/trinity-new-modified-preamp.html
Keith - even if there was, you would not admit it or deny it. Unfortunately, you have a hidden agenda in this discussion, which makes it complicated.
There are two reasons milled aluminium enclosure is better than sheet metal one.
For one, it allows you to mill compartments for different parts of the circuit, which provide additional shielding. It is a common practice among those manufacturers who use milled enclosures (from Linn to Ayre) and this is exactly what Dietmar has done. The PSU and amp circuts are now sitted in separate compartments vs common compartment in the early example.
Second reason is microphonics. All electronics is microphonic (sensitive to vibrations) and putting a circut board in a heavy, milled enclosure always helps.
The ONLY components that are different on Berkeley Reference DAC compared to Alpha series II DAC are:
- different PCB material
- little doughter board with the Alpha sign on it, probably containing the new digital filter
Both the PSU board and the main DAC board are identical.
Here is the original Alpha Series II:
And here you have the Reference DAC:
Every single component is the same, in the very same location. I bet the whole PCB design is exactly the same.
Amd now compare the Series 2 PSU to the one you see above in the Reference:
The very same part !
Only this doughterboard was added:
That, plus said new PCB material and aluminium enclosure are the only differencies. Price increase: from $4500 to $16.000. 4 fold !
The ONLY components that are different on Berkeley Reference DAC compared to Alpha series II DAC are:
- different PCB material
- little doughter board with the Alpha sign on it, probably containing the new digital filter
Both the PSU board and the main DAC board are identical.
(...) [/IMG]
The very same part !
Only this doughterboard was added:
Price increase: from $4500 to $16.000.
Mark Levinson by Harman had a similar policy in the past. They had the normal series and an improved series sharing the same circuits. The S series just had special material white PCBs and some specially selected audiophile components. The S series was much more expensive and had better sound quality. Even today the S series are much more valuable than the normal series. Fortunately for owners at that time it was possible to upgrade the normal units to S. BTW, both series showed similar measurements! I attach a photo of the more recent ML 326s PCBs
Attachments
Keith let me explain for all the other why I have finished the relationship with you as a dealer, there were no sales at all and we speak about a time frame of more than a year, no adds in the British press, no Audio shows in the UK and no understanding of the product line.
Obviously that is the reason, why you tell such rubbish that I have increased the price by a factor of 3 caused by a new enclosure. To tell the true I had designed a PHON preamp, which was indeed in an industrial 19” enclosure, which was much cheaper than the current phono stage in the full aluminium enclosure, but both devices had complete different electronic!!!, even if they were based on the same architecture. The current Phono stage has roughly 5 times more silicon area then the cheap one, it had an additional second input with the best hermetic sealed relay of the market for the input switch, the power supply was complete different and the current Phono stage has so-called extreme low noise point-of-load voltage regulators on the main board. In addition the current Phono stage has 3 additional equalizing curves beside the RIAA and will be shipped a dedicated NATO proofed flight case and so on. The only true is this current Pho Stage is 3 times more expansive then cheap first design. By the way you have been the only one, who bought the cheap device.
I do not understand why you are so upset with me, since I bought all your TRINITY devices back from you in 2013 (cheap TRINITY phono, current TRINITY Phono and old Preamp), so that you had no losses at all with my brand. In contrast you could listen more than a year with the TRINITY Electronic for free.
By the way the PHONO, the Preamp and the Power Amp are based on the same Gain stage.
Here the last measurement results of this Gain Stage with the new Audio Precision Analyzer. All harmonic distortions are below -140dB!!! If you buy a TRINITY you do not buy a simple milled enclosure you buy state of the art electronic.
View attachment 21273
Obviously that is the reason, why you tell such rubbish that I have increased the price by a factor of 3 caused by a new enclosure. To tell the true I had designed a PHON preamp, which was indeed in an industrial 19” enclosure, which was much cheaper than the current phono stage in the full aluminium enclosure, but both devices had complete different electronic!!!, even if they were based on the same architecture. The current Phono stage has roughly 5 times more silicon area then the cheap one, it had an additional second input with the best hermetic sealed relay of the market for the input switch, the power supply was complete different and the current Phono stage has so-called extreme low noise point-of-load voltage regulators on the main board. In addition the current Phono stage has 3 additional equalizing curves beside the RIAA and will be shipped a dedicated NATO proofed flight case and so on. The only true is this current Pho Stage is 3 times more expansive then cheap first design. By the way you have been the only one, who bought the cheap device.
I do not understand why you are so upset with me, since I bought all your TRINITY devices back from you in 2013 (cheap TRINITY phono, current TRINITY Phono and old Preamp), so that you had no losses at all with my brand. In contrast you could listen more than a year with the TRINITY Electronic for free.
By the way the PHONO, the Preamp and the Power Amp are based on the same Gain stage.
Here the last measurement results of this Gain Stage with the new Audio Precision Analyzer. All harmonic distortions are below -140dB!!! If you buy a TRINITY you do not buy a simple milled enclosure you buy state of the art electronic.
View attachment 21273
I agree that simple measurements will probably show nothing. Where I dissagree is the concept that solid state gear is immune to vibrations. My experience, and also the experience of people on this forum who experimented with various supports from companies like Finite Elemente, Still Points, Shun Mook etc, show otherwise.
The DAC IV Diamond is now 2 generations removed from the current production model. So yeah, your Trinity might be better than that. It is different, for sure...
Having seen new MSB product (since they brought CNC in-house), and the quality of the push buttons used for Trinity products, I highly doubt MSB's quality is, TODAY, worse than Trinity's. Granted, it wasn't always like that, but you only need to look at MSB's entry-level Analog DAC to see the improvements in build quality.
alexandre
This is the new preamp design I mentioned earlier, with volume display:
Dietmar has made some significant improvements when working on his phono, which he had transfered to pre design. It allowed him to drop the distortion figures from -120dB, to -140dB. This is phenomenal result. I know of no other preamp that has such a low distortion figures.
Please do not mistake the quality German made push buttons Trinity is using with the cheap chineese copy that is seems to be flooding the market. Two different things.
The ones Trinity is using are very nicely finished and have a really sophisticated feel to them when pushed.
I agree the new Select is much better made than the DAC IV. The main problem with the DAC IV was that it was bolted from many separate parts, that created some fitting issues. I remember the after I opened my DAC IV Diamond to look inside, I was not able to put the top cover back, as it didn't fit at one corner (by a few tens of a mm). I managed to solve the problem by inserting the top cover into a freezer (!), which shrunk it just enough to fit.
They should also look closely at the quality of packaging and the quality of the remote the DACs come with.
Oh so these are german made? OK then!
I wasn't even talking about the SELECT, when I mentioned your DAC experience is 2 generations removed from current production. If you count the new SELECT, it's 3 generations removed then.
As I said, MSB's build quality wasn't always good as it is now. And, my guess, is that they knew it, so they put their money to work, and bought a CNC machine to have everything done in-house, as well as dedicated staff to handle it.
But, until you have any experience with CURRENT production units, the comparison doesn't stand. As I said, I feel the entry-level Analog DAC has better build quality than just about any DAC mentioned in this thread. It's also milled from solid aluminum, and it starts at $7k.
alexandre
I wasn't even talking about the SELECT, when I mentioned your DAC experience is 2 generations removed from current production. If you count the new SELECT, it's 3 generations removed then.
As I said, MSB's build quality wasn't always good as it is now. And, my guess, is that they knew it, so they put their money to work, and bought a CNC machine to have everything done in-house, as well as dedicated staff to handle it.
But, until you have any experience with CURRENT production units, the comparison doesn't stand. As I said, I feel the entry-level Analog DAC has better build quality than just about any DAC mentioned in this thread. It's also milled from solid aluminum, and it starts at $7k.
alexandre
Elberoth, concerning the 1% differenze between The Berkely Alpha II and the Berkeley Refernce DAC: even if the difference were only this 1% I can tell that there is an abyssal diference in sound! And I can affirm this because I have had a Berkely Alpha II in my system before I changed it with Berkely Reference DAC.
And I suppose that you haven't had the occasion of listening to it, otherwise you, who are much more expert than me, could have realized it immediately.
Concerning the prices, if we consider the prices in US Dollars: Trinity costs 56000 USD, Berkely Refernce costs 16000 USD.
And this couldn't be considered a small difference, could it?
Furthermore, concerning TotalDac price, as a simple buyer I don't care the commercial politics and trade policies of the different factories, the final result is that TotalDac twelve costs, for my pockets, 28000 euros.
Considering that I am a simple listener and a musician, and that I am not a technician, an engineer or a seller, I have expressed only an opinion of mine, after listening to Berkeley Reference, Totaldac twelve, Trinity Dac and MSB Select Dac.
I'm not all that expert in Hi-End systems, and an opinion of mine has probably a relative low value for other people.
Just to let ypu know wich kind of factors influenced my choice of a new DAC for my system.
And I suppose that you haven't had the occasion of listening to it, otherwise you, who are much more expert than me, could have realized it immediately.
Concerning the prices, if we consider the prices in US Dollars: Trinity costs 56000 USD, Berkely Refernce costs 16000 USD.
And this couldn't be considered a small difference, could it?
Furthermore, concerning TotalDac price, as a simple buyer I don't care the commercial politics and trade policies of the different factories, the final result is that TotalDac twelve costs, for my pockets, 28000 euros.
Considering that I am a simple listener and a musician, and that I am not a technician, an engineer or a seller, I have expressed only an opinion of mine, after listening to Berkeley Reference, Totaldac twelve, Trinity Dac and MSB Select Dac.
I'm not all that expert in Hi-End systems, and an opinion of mine has probably a relative low value for other people.
Just to let ypu know wich kind of factors influenced my choice of a new DAC for my system.
Last edited:
1 man's meat is another man's poison . My friend who own Trinity mono loves it & he can buy any amp on planet earth if he wants . How many people can afford to spend USD30k on sofa yet he prefers Trinity . On the other hand , some of us would not even pay half of the retail price of the tiny weeny amp & probably with switch mode power supply . So relax & enjoy the hobby . I think we can respect each other opinion
It seems you are very specific about the differences. So, note that a 4 fold increase of $4,500 is $18,000, not $16,000 as you suggest.
I agree. Placing my SS amplifiers up on ballasted Vibraplanes made a very noticeable difference.
Similar threads
