Tripoint Troy Elite - Installed

[Mike Lavigne]

so the Tripoint will ground most components but not all components??

i did not initially connect the Tripoint to the ML3's (per David). the ground loop issue was independent of the Tripoint. and i do not view the Tripoint products as part of proper grounding. they do 'other' things. if your system has A/C power grid grounding issues, those need to be resolved prior to connecting a Tripoint. they enhance an already sorted out system (which I've said a few times). they don't 'fix' problems.

 

[Audiocrack]

Or I see, by 'earthpin' you were referring to what in the US is called a 'ground rod'.
And the 45 meters is the total length of the earth pins/ground rods in Planet Earth.
In that case, 1.52 Ohms seems to be extremely low. It's not an easy measurement to make, it requires an expensive meter, and skilled technician and lots of time.

Indeed Kevin, maybe I should have used the expression ‘ground rod’. It was a (professional) company specialized in ground rod / earthpin installations using a professional measuring device. Fascinating to watch how the Ohms value dropped gradually with each additional pin. And indeed, we went 45 meters deep.

 

[andromedaaudio]

IT helps also that Holland has soft soil off course in most areas.

 

[SuperDave]

I refute that entirely, and consider this a wholly rude comment. I am constantly trying to help guide people to understand this stuff, and have answered a multitude of your questions. But what really erks me is the fact that I very very specifically state all of these products do work - just state that how they work is not the same as what people believe esp since manufacturers won't commit product suicide by telling the truth.



When I say high frequencies I am not talking about flutes. I mean actual frequencies. The "airiness" effect is very specifically exagerated high frequencies. Lower frequencies are not the same because they do not carry spatial infiormation like that. They are however changed. You cannot load up on RF without doing so. You simply presume these products are with no trade off, and work as the manufacturers like to claim. But geniuses wide and far that are engineers on many things, including RF, very distinctly will say these products defy all known physics and reality itself to meet the accredited function told by manufacturers. My point being that it isnt just me, a guy who does work on designing electronics, it is the world and reality itself that say no, it isnt possible. If it were there is no chance in hell these guys would be accepting peanuts for their quantum engineering (or worm hole, who knows, something totally unknown), when they could be making millions.



Why is everyone grouping me with Ack? I am profoundly saying different things than he is saying. I don't suggest his application if anything. I cannot overstate that I say these products work, but the "tech" explanations are at least half bogus. So please do me the favor and read what I have wrote, with some deliberation. You will have to suffer the duality of what I am saying - but it is a respect I try to afford everyone else.



I write this in good faith that maybe you will start actually reading what I type.

Proper grounding is important or your equipment would be dangerous and/or not work. But if you think it is not built into the equipment, what do you believe, fairy dust? The guys designing the gear (amp, DAC, etc) are eons beyond what it takes to design these grounding boxes. The most important factor to designing a "grounding device" is too understand you are not trying to engineer a technically by the numbers product, but you suck up your ego and give them what they want - even if it is just an RF antenna. They accomplish something entirely different than actual grounding. The safety earth and/or circuit ground is simply the path where they use to accomplish the goal.

Folsom,
I agree and apologize. It crossed my mind as I typed but it came out anyway.

Dave

 

[SuperDave]

If you read the subsequent quotes I provided, especially the brilliant post by Atmasphere, you may be able to better judge one way or another whether you wasted your money or not. The question I would ask is this: what sort of problem are these things attempting to solve that decades worth of proper engineering have not been able to. My answer: none; it's been solved and quite well; we are just not grounding components correctly. The so called grounding box manufacturers should take my question as a challenge to come out clean and explain what they think they are doing.

Ack,
I am not questioning the value of the Elite or any Tripoint product. I have no buyers remorse and feel they elevate my system beyond what it could do without them.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Superdave , do you own 3 speakers at the same time, or is that the Line of progression?

 

[SuperDave]

Superdave , do you own 3 speakers at the same time, or is that the Line of progression?

My 2ch and HT are combined in one room. The Aviors are front with B&W as the rear channels and Rockport Mira center. It has been a progression from B&W 704 to 803D to Avior. I will someday move up the Rockport line and move the Aviors to the rear.

Dave

 

[andromedaaudio]

That s a funny way of progressing things they get literally pushed back

 

[Folsom]

Thanks, guys. I guess I got lucky then, without even knowing what I was doing .

Question: I do use an isolation transformer for the digital front end (transport + DAC), fed from the same power outlet as everything else. I don't know if this lifts the ground or not, but does that introduce any ground loop problems? My system has no balanced connections.

(Not that I am aware of sonic problems, just asking.)

The isolation transformers ground is the same as safety ground coming into it. Balanced transformers add another ground as reference, that is the center trap to the transformer, but isolation transformers do not do that.

You shouldn't have any problems.

 

[Al M.]

The isolation transformers ground is the same as safety ground coming into it. Balanced transformers add another ground as reference, that is the center trap to the transformer, but isolation transformers do not do that.

You shouldn't have any problems.

Thanks!

 

[Speedskater]

Indeed Kevin, maybe I should have used the expression ‘ground rod’. It was a (professional) company specialized in ground rod / earthpin installations using a professional measuring device. Fascinating to watch how the Ohms value dropped gradually with each additional pin. And indeed, we went 45 meters deep.

Wow, a single 150 foot rod. That's impressive and probably expensive, it could very well have a 1.5 Ohm impedance.
But the ground rod is there for safety, it has nothing to do with day-to-day power quality.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . I don't know if this lifts the ground or not, but does that introduce any ground loop problems? My system has no balanced connections.
. . .

(emphasis added)

Al, to what is your "that" referring?

A) the isolation transformer in general?

B) the isolation transformer assuming that it lifts the ground?

C) the fact that the isolation transformer and everything else are fed from the same power outlet?

I think it is very difficult to predict different potentials to ground at different components. And just because there are different potentials to ground does not mean you will have hum or grounding problems.

 

[Tango]

Hide your magic box(s) from David when he comes to install the as2000....

I will put mouse traps around them .

Tang

 

[Audiocrack]

Wow, a single 150 foot rod. That's impressive and probably expensive, it could very well have a 1.5 Ohm impedance.
But the ground rod is there for safety, it has nothing to do with day-to-day power quality.

Not here in the Netherlands. Ground rods are exceptions that are installed by audiophiles for sound quality reasons. Could clearly hear more serinity/calmness/transparency after the earthpin installation although no way in the legue of the top of the line Tripoint components - Emperor mk ii ‘ground’ station and ground cables (pictures can be found on the Tidal La Assoluta thread) - I am using. I am playing with (if I may be so arrogant) high quality audio components but the gains in the sonic presentation with these Tripoint components as regards many important aspects are huge. I again refer to the La Assoluta thread.

 

[Speedskater]

Not here in the Netherlands. Ground rods are exceptions that are installed by audiophiles for sound quality reasons. Could clearly hear more serinity/calmness/transparency after the earthpin installation ........................................................

Sorry, but electricity doesn't work that way, even in the Netherlands.

 

[Audiocrack]

Sorry, but electricity doesn't work that way, even in the Netherlands.

You mean, Kevin, that the sonic gains I just described are not possible after installation of a ground rod / earthpin?

 

[Speedskater]

You mean, Kevin, that the sonic gains I just described are not possible after installation of a ground rod / earthpin?

I'm saying that the sonic gains were due to some other uncontrolled variable.

 

[Audiocrack]

I'm saying that the sonic gains were due to some other uncontrolled variable.[/QUOT

Well let’s say I respectfully but also strongly disagree. After adding the ground rod / earthpin I listened intensively to my system for about two weeks before inserting my Tripoint component again. Before that I had removed all my Tripoint components in order to be able to make a comparison of the system without and with the ground rod / earthpin. The differences for the better that I mentioned earlier could very clearly be heard by my audio group and me. After two weeks I inserted the Tripoint components again and their positive effects were even larger than before. Apparently the ground rod / earthpin enhances the performance of the Tripoint components.

Of course I am far from the only audiophile who experiences positive effects / benefits from adding an earthpin, but apparently you are one of the ‘naysayers’ and that is completely fine with me. I will leave it at that.

 

[microstrip]

I'm saying that the sonic gains were due to some other uncontrolled variable.

We do not have the full details about the electrical distribution, electric board and complete description of Audiocrack audio system, how can we postulate about the sound quality differences introduced by using a separate low resistivity earth pin and its cause?

 

[Al M.]

(emphasis added)

Al, to what is your "that" referring?

A) the isolation transformer in general?

B) the isolation transformer assuming that it lifts the ground?

C) the fact that the isolation transformer and everything else are fed from the same power outlet?

I think it is very difficult to predict different potentials to ground at different components. And just because there are different potentials to ground does not mean you will have hum or grounding problems.

It's mostly B). I ask myself if the ground is lifted, is that a problem, can that induce ground differentials with the other equipment. And, does an isolation transformer even lift the ground? I guess that depends on its topology, not sure.