Tube amps....where art thou?

[mbovaird]

I have to get something off my chest. I have been auditioning tube amps for the past several months. I'm talking about the big power ones (not the gorgeous sounding push/pull - SET - 300B ones). I have been auditioning VTL, ARC, VAC and a few others.

Yes I understand that 95% of the tube amps still sound like tube amps, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why some tube manufacturers are insistent on making their tube amps sound more like solid state. Many solid state manufacturers are working diligently to capture tube like characteristics in their solid state amps.

In making tube amps sound more like solid state, I have found, they lose body, gain a forced and almost phony sounding high frequency extension. The modern tube amps I auditioned recently sound faster, punchier with much better bass control. But they sound thin, with what sounded to me like unnatural high frequency extensions and more importantly, they don't sound like tube amps anymore. I want the body, the fullness, the richness, the rounded edges, the glorious sound we associate with tubes. If I want an amp that sounds like solid state, I will buy a solid state amp.

A frog is a frog, unless it's a toad and at the end of the day, I want my coffee to taste like coffee, my blondes to be natural and my tube amps to sound like tube amps.....warts and all.

Mike

 

[JackD201]

Did you try the VTLs in triode mode? They sound much more "traditional" that way.

I like many of the VTL, ARC, VAC amps, I just don't like dealing with lots and lots of power tubes anymore. I wouldn't buy them to get the 50s and 60s tube sound though. Most are moving towards more neutral tonal balances. Tube rolling is always an open option though.

 

[MadFloyd]

I have to get something off my chest. I have been auditioning tube amps for the past several months. I'm talking about the big power ones (not the gorgeous sounding push/pull - SET - 300B ones). I have been auditioning VTL, ARC, VAC and a few others.

Yes I understand that 95% of the tube amps still sound like tube amps, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why some tube manufacturers are insistent on making their tube amps sound more like solid state. Many solid state manufacturers are working diligently to capture tube like characteristics in their solid state amps.

In making tube amps sound more like solid state, I have found, they lose body, gain a forced and almost phony sounding high frequency extension. The modern tube amps I auditioned recently sound faster, punchier with much better bass control. But they sound thin, with what sounded to me like unnatural high frequency extensions and more importantly, they don't sound like tube amps anymore. I want the body, the fullness, the richness, the rounded edges, the glorious sound we associate with tubes. If I want an amp that sounds like solid state, I will buy a solid state amp.

A frog is a frog, unless it's a toad and at the end of the day, I want my coffee to taste like coffee, my blondes to be natural and my tube amps to sound like tube amps.....warts and all.

Mike

That's why we're lucky to have Doshi. The glory of tubes with gobs of detail, proper timbre not to mention a transformer & power supply that can grip the woofers.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I have to get something off my chest. I have been auditioning tube amps for the past several months. I'm talking about the big power ones (not the gorgeous sounding push/pull - SET - 300B ones). I have been auditioning VTL, ARC, VAC and a few others.

Yes I understand that 95% of the tube amps still sound like tube amps, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why some tube manufacturers are insistent on making their tube amps sound more like solid state. Many solid state manufacturers are working diligently to capture tube like characteristics in their solid state amps.

In making tube amps sound more like solid state, I have found, they lose body, gain a forced and almost phony sounding high frequency extension. The modern tube amps I auditioned recently sound faster, punchier with much better bass control. But they sound thin, with what sounded to me like unnatural high frequency extensions and more importantly, they don't sound like tube amps anymore. I want the body, the fullness, the richness, the rounded edges, the glorious sound we associate with tubes. If I want an amp that sounds like solid state, I will buy a solid state amp.

A frog is a frog, unless it's a toad and at the end of the day, I want my coffee to taste like coffee, my blondes to be natural and my tube amps to sound like tube amps.....warts and all.

Mike

There's something wrong if the VAC amplifiers sounded like solid-state. Seriously wrong.

 

[mbovaird]

There's something wrong if the VAC amplifiers sounded like solid-state. Seriously wrong.

They did Miles. I demoed a friends pair of Phi200's yesterday. He asked for my HONEST opinion. I said, "you have a really nice pair of solid state amplifiers here". His old VAC 100/100 sounded much much better. I also didn't care for the big 450's at RMAF. Trust me, I'm a HUGE VAC fan (they are only a few miles from my house!) But the new VAC sound is not like the old VAC sound. YMMV.

 

[mbovaird]

That's why we're lucky to have Doshi. The glory of tubes with gobs of detail, proper timbre not to mention a transformer & power supply that can grip the woofers.

I agree. One only needed to compare the Alexias with VTL vs Alexias with Doshi at RMAF to know what I'm talking about.

 

[Bruce B]

I agree. One only needed to compare the Alexias with VTL vs Alexias with Doshi at RMAF to know what I'm talking about.

+1... I was at Nick's place and got to hear the Alexia's with his 90 watt amps vs. his 160 watt amps.

 

[zztop7]

The >>> CORRECT <<< tubes are like a healthy heartbeat in a professional female volley ball player [that is NOT sexist; that is appreciative & respectful].

None of this is to slam SS; correct SS is superb.

zz.

 

[MadFloyd]

+1... I was at Nick's place and got to hear the Alexia's with his 90 watt amps vs. his 160 watt amps.

Whoah, Bruce. You are going to have to expand on that.

Nick's place + Alexias. Nick went from Maxx3's to Alexias?

More importantly, as an owner of his 90 watt amps and being very curious about his 160 watt amps (and having not made it to RMAF this year) can you give me your thoughts on the sonic differences when matched with the Alexia? Feel free to PM me if you'd feel more comfortable.

 

[rockitman]

I like class A solid state for my amps but I do like tubes better for source components like phono stages having both to compare and I would imagine tape stage too. I like to have 4 balanced xlr inputs on my main pre and a tape loop. That limits tube preamp choices so I may stick with SS.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Topic starter : You can also turn it around , get high eff/high imp dynamic speakers and the tubepossibilities are wide open, with less tubes less heat less problems a win win situation

If thats not possible, i always liked ARC , CAT also makes quite powerfull ones

 

[Jazzhead]

I want the body, the fullness, the richness, the rounded edges, the glorious sound we associate with tubes. If I want an amp that sounds like solid state, I will buy a solid state amp.

A frog is a frog, unless it's a toad and at the end of the day, I want my coffee to taste like coffee, my blondes to be natural and my tube amps to sound like tube amps.....warts and all.

Mike

Sounds like "Jadis" be the one to satisfy you . Ever tried the brand ?

 

[MylesBAstor]

They did Miles. I demoed a friends pair of Phi200's yesterday. He asked for my HONEST opinion. I said, "you have a really nice pair of solid state amplifiers here". His old VAC 100/100 sounded much much better. I also didn't care for the big 450's at RMAF. Trust me, I'm a HUGE VAC fan (they are only a few miles from my house!) But the new VAC sound is not like the old VAC sound. YMMV.

I heard the 450s at Leon's (he goes by LCat here) and they didn't sound like SS. Charlie and Bill were out that day also!

What else was in your friend's system? Silver cables? Analog, digital or both?

 

[mbovaird]

I heard the 450s at Leon's (he goes by LCat here) and they didn't sound like SS. Charlie and Bill were out that day also!

What else was in your friend's system? Silver cables? Analog, digital or both?

Yes, silver cables, Vac IIa preamp, digital only (Oppo 83).

 

[mbovaird]

Sounds like "Jadis" be the one to satisfy you . Ever tried the brand ?

Nope.

 

[Bruce B]

Whoah, Bruce. You are going to have to expand on that.

Nick's place + Alexias. Nick went from Maxx3's to Alexias?

Everything the 90 watt amps are, the 160 give you more of it. The timbre doesn't change, just that you get better bass speed/control and the top end seems limitless.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Yes, silver cables, Vac IIa preamp, digital only (Oppo 83).

"Eureka!" <ducking for cover>

 

[mep]

Digital plus silver cables = non-tube sound from tube amps.

 

[TBone]

>>Digital plus silver cables = non-tube sound from tube amps.<<

Such a silly generalization ...

tb1

 

[TBone]

>>A frog is a frog, unless it's a toad and at the end of the day, I want my coffee to taste like coffee, my blondes to be natural and my tube amps to sound like tube amps.....warts and all.<<

LOL, yeah ... I hear ya ... however ... the less the Blonde talks ...

tb1