Tube amps....where art thou?

[kach22i]

I would say that ss gets the attack, both technologies present different versions of the music in the middle and tubes get the harmonics better. YMMV....

Well spoken, and I agree.

 

[Atmasphere]

I would say that ss gets the attack, both technologies present different versions of the music in the middle and tubes get the harmonics better. YMMV....

IME Tubes can do the attack just as well- but in fairness, most tube amplifiers seem to me to have speed problems. Those that do not are the ones that get the leading edges right.

Then there is the issue of what many audiophiles call 'emotional involvement'. I find this to be the pervue of zero feedback designs. Apparently the ear/brain system has various tipping points; normally music is processed in the limbic centers of the brain. But if the brain detects problems with the sound (problems that seem to violate certain hearing/perceptual rules) it will shift the processing to the cerebral cortex. When this happens you loose the natural tendency of toe tapping, dance, that sort of thing. Excess brightness and odd loudness cues (caused by higher ordered harmonics not germane to the music itself) can cause this shift.

Because of these tipping points in the brain, I am of the opinion that the designer should design the audio system to obey as many hearing/perceptual rules as are known rather than just look at a spec on paper. This can result though in amps that measure poorly but sound good...

 

[MadFloyd]

IME Tubes can do the attack just as well- but in fairness, most tube amplifiers seem to me to have speed problems. Those that do not are the ones that get the leading edges right.

Then there is the issue of what many audiophiles call 'emotional involvement'. I find this to be the pervue of zero feedback designs. Apparently the ear/brain system has various tipping points; normally music is processed in the limbic centers of the brain. But if the brain detects problems with the sound (problems that seem to violate certain hearing/perceptual rules) it will shift the processing to the cerebral cortex. When this happens you loose the natural tendency of toe tapping, dance, that sort of thing. Excess brightness and odd loudness cues (caused by higher ordered harmonics not germane to the music itself) can cause this shift.

Because of these tipping points in the brain, I am of the opinion that the designer should design the audio system to obey as many hearing/perceptual rules as are known rather than just look at a spec on paper. This can result though in amps that measure poorly but sound good...

Great post, thanks for contributing.

 

[LL21]

IME Tubes can do the attack just as well- but in fairness, most tube amplifiers seem to me to have speed problems. Those that do not are the ones that get the leading edges right.

Then there is the issue of what many audiophiles call 'emotional involvement'. I find this to be the pervue of zero feedback designs. Apparently the ear/brain system has various tipping points; normally music is processed in the limbic centers of the brain. But if the brain detects problems with the sound (problems that seem to violate certain hearing/perceptual rules) it will shift the processing to the cerebral cortex. When this happens you loose the natural tendency of toe tapping, dance, that sort of thing. Excess brightness and odd loudness cues (caused by higher ordered harmonics not germane to the music itself) can cause this shift.

Because of these tipping points in the brain, I am of the opinion that the designer should design the audio system to obey as many hearing/perceptual rules as are known rather than just look at a spec on paper. This can result though in amps that measure poorly but sound good...

Really appreciate your posting...great reading even for non-techies like me. May I ask your opinion on zero-feedback Class A SS designs like Gryphon Audio? I have heard many many people describe their latest reference models (particularly mids, treble and space) with language often used to describe world-class tubes. But of course, they are SS and provide propulsive power in the bass. I know very little about design obviously, but any thoughts you may have on why this similarity in tonal qualities, etc would be appreciated.

 

[taters]

It could be (sounded like) that the tube amps auditioned were fazed by the cruel impedance dips presented by your speakers whereby changing their intrinsic characters. Ime, in such cases, usually sound thinner and edgier than they should be. When at ease, VAC don't usually sound that way. However, my experience was limited to Renaissance140s and PHi300.1 only.

I know VAC makes good tube gear but I don't understand why they recommend Chinese tubes for their gear.

 

[JackD201]

I guess Kevin thinks that the Chinese new production tubes better their Russian equivalents.