Tubes, different makers, different types...but what are your preferences?

[Music and Wine]

Hello All

been playing around with 300b tubes today in my amp that uses a 300b to drive a 212 tube with a interstage transformer .I am very shocked at the differences.
The KR is very extended,dynamics and open,little bid pale,lacking richness
The EAT is very good,but horrible expensive,richer in the middle,but lacking a taut extended bass
The Sophia Golden Princess,very musical,rich big bass ,full and powerful,slightly rolled off on top but I compensate it with a more extended 6f8g ,that drives the 300b and it sounded glorious
Elrog,these are about 10 years old,but never been used,very clear and extended,very transparent,this could become a winner
Takatsuki,very fast , ultra transparent,very tight bass,very extended op top,this tube sounds more like a brilliant 2a3 in a very positive way.I love this tube
WE300b 1939 ,what a surprise,good bass,beautiful midrange,rich and fleshy treble.I was never the biggest supporter of WE300b,but that could change
WE300b 1948 - 1950.First it sounded completely different to the previous WE,but after an hour the tube settled and was very similar
Reissue WE300B from1998,different very different,not as rich and developed in the mids and the low frequencies are slow and hard at the same time.I hope this will change with time.Was running them for 3 hours but they hardly changed,very disappointed so far.
EMission Labs Mesh.very very different to all 300b tubes,very open and the sound flouts in the air,very detailed but not as powerful in the bass,more delicate,feminine sort of.I tube for young lovers,I guess,maybe ever for old ones.

All these 300b are new and most of them have less than 10 hours on them,maybe they will still change for the better after a while.I normally don’t believe in much burn itime for tubes,but big Triodes do take some hours,especially the WE300B,they make some frightening noises in the binging.If somebody doesn’t know about it,will send his amp in for repairs or may think the tube is faulty

Tried also 2 different 212 tubes,both WE one graphite plate and the other the metal plate.They are also got very little hours on.So far the metal one sounds more transparent.I think the 300b tubes make a bigger difference.I will see what happens later,still want to try the Psvane,but are bid scared,I am running them very hard and I will see if the Chinese tube can handle the torture.
Let the tubes roll and share your experience with us ,but please let everybody have it’s own experience.Some people sometimes think,their experience is always the only one and the correct one,don’t worry about it,just laugh about it.

only your own experience is what counts

Keep on rolling these beautiful bottles
Cheers

 

[DasguteOhr]

my personally most beautiful new 300bs, the TJ Globeshape bronze base surpasses every other tube shown. much finer resolution it makes no mistakes in the entire frequency range there is no point of criticism. they cost 500 € the pair and run with me with 400v / 80mA operating point that is what I call hard work.
try them out and report

 

[Music and Wine]

Hello Stephan

,Sorry what do you mean by no point of criticism.I just don’t understand what you wanting so say.Communication error my side.Sorry I am old and not very clever.I never heard these tubes and maybe they are really the best,I don’t know them,but maybe I should get a pair.

Everybody got a different taste,what sounds best and all our systems are so different and all the room acoustics are different,yes different tubes will perform different in different places.Nothing is ever the same,even if you just mute your system for one minute and play it again it will always be different,because time has changed.

Best does not exists,just best to us at a certain time,the factor time changes constantly and we also change with it.That is the reason,I wake up in the morning and suddenly don’t like the sound of my system anymore and then change something and feel more in touch with the music.

Our biggest enemy is time and the surch for the perfect sound,if you a mad audiophile,like me.The one we can not stop or change (time)and the other one we will never find ( perfect sound).These are unfortunately facts ,I wish myself I had the power to change them.I been teaching most of my adult life quantum mathematics and quantum mechanics and what time really is and 40 years later,I still go no idea whatsoever,very confusing issue.

I will first listen to all my 300b’s and maybe then if the need comes up I will order a pair.I hope it doesn’t because without the need to change and buy a new paid I can save 500 Euros ,but knowing myself,you planted a seed and will most probably go for it,sometimes in the future.

 

[Sablon Audio]

To touch on comments by both of you (@Music and Wine & @DasguteOhr), my experience of the 1990s WE300b reissue in a Border Patrol PP amp was disappointing and the Sophia carbon plates which replaced them were much better sounding. There’s no doubt the Chinese can make some excellent tubes, not just 300b but also the Shuguang CV181 and Full Music Q 2A3 I have used have been great.

Buying NOS can be somewhat of a crapshoot wrt exactly what version you are getting, who actually made it and in what condition (supplier test claims aren’t always supported by independent testing…) so it’s reassuring to know there are still some attractive current production options.

 

[Mendel]

Just a comment on the quality and longevity of Telefunken (12ax7) tubes. I have collected perhaps 30 of these tubes over the last 25 years, mainly through dealers met at hamfests. These tubes were definitely not NOS, they were all well used, a couple even had burn marks on the glass. Every single one tested near new, with triodes matching within 5%, even the burnt ones. I have never found a Telefunken 12ax7 that didn’t test good!
Not my favourite sounding tube, but you can’t question the quality of the construction. If I want a fast sounding detail tube, I prefer the Siemens 12ax7s to the Teles. The Siemens long plate 12ax7 is a fantastic tube but very hard to find these days. The short plate version is very good, just not quite as good as the long plates. Not a big fan of the Mullards, just to coloured sounding IMO. The various Amperexs have a “sunny” sound to them to me, they light up the soundstage, but are a little thick in the mids which obscures a bit of detail, depending on the version.
I really like the early Raytheon black plates square getter. The RCAs are good too, just not as good as the earlier Raytheons. And then of course there are the early black plate 5751s from Sylvania (the best to me), Raytheon, GE and RCA. All great tubes! These American tubes were made in the millions and are still relatively easy to find and inexpensive (compared to their famous European brethren).
Enjoy the roll!

 

[Music and Wine]

Hello

I 100% agree that some Chinese tubes are very good and some NOS are a gamble.You will never know what is NOS and what is not.

I am happy somebody agrees with me,that a Chinese tube can sound as good but very different to a WE300B.I also like the expensive Chinese 6SN7,not the cheap ones.But these coke bottle 6SN7 are fine tubes,I got some from Sophia blue bottle and Psvane grey bottle and the big globe tube and one pair from Shuguang black bottle.

I also agree with the statement,that Telefunken are very well made and my humble opinion is also they are great tubes,but most of the time,they are too airy and lack weight in my system.I also prefer the best Siemens & Halske from pre 1967 and especially the long plate ones and also the best Valvo tubes.It is interesting,I also prefer the normal Telefunken ecc81 or Ecc82 or ecc83 to the higher priced and different ECC801s and ECC802S and ECC803s.I think the Telefunken 801 and 802 and 803 are more accurate but it is more important for me,what sounds more pleasurable.I realised,I will never get perfect sound in my home,it just doesn’t matter what I do,so I rather get a sound that is reasonably accurate but enjoyable.US tubes are very underrated and the best are fantastic and still relatively cheap.I also don’t like the Mullard sound that much,some can be good but most of them are just to eccentric,but in my opinion the best el34 or el84 and the gz32 and gz34 are superb from Mullard.

Amperex ,the old long plate one can be nice,but not all of them.Some Tubes colour the sound more than others but in the right system may sound surprisingly good,but most German tubes are very accurate and Telefunken are accurate too the point,it started to be too much .In some system it is maybe the ticket to Nivana.I don’t know what Nivana is ,so I go for something that pampers my emotions.Right or Wrong ,who knows

In the end we must enjoy our mad hobby and only we must and can decide what is best for us.I don’t appreciate if somebody tell me what I must like,but love it if somebody give me advice and shares his experience and helps me,because we are all learning and nobody will know it all.

keep on rolling these beautiful bottles and share your options with us
Cheers and if your system sound Sh….t… today drink more wine till it sounds great.Easy solution too a big problem

 

[DasguteOhr]

Just a comment on the quality and longevity of Telefunken (12ax7) tubes. I have collected perhaps 30 of these tubes over the last 25 years, mainly through dealers met at hamfests. These tubes were definitely not NOS, they were all well used, a couple even had burn marks on the glass. Every single one tested near new, with triodes matching within 5%, even the burnt ones. I have never found a Telefunken 12ax7 that didn’t test good!
Not my favourite sounding tube, but you can’t question the quality of the construction. If I want a fast sounding detail tube, I prefer the Siemens 12ax7s to the Teles. The Siemens long plate 12ax7 is a fantastic tube but very hard to find these days. The short plate version is very good, just not quite as good as the long plates. Not a big fan of the Mullards, just to coloured sounding IMO. The various Amperexs have a “sunny” sound to them to me, they light up the soundstage, but are a little thick in the mids which obscures a bit of detail, depending on the version.
I really like the early Raytheon black plates square getter. The RCAs are good too, just not as good as the earlier Raytheons. And then of course there are the early black plate 5751s from Sylvania (the best to me), Raytheon, GE and RCA. All great tubes! These American tubes were made in the millions and are still relatively easy to find and inexpensive (compared to their famous European brethren).
Enjoy the roll!

if you use the ECC83 in a phonoamp I have a good tip for you. When working with SUT it is important to keep the capacity as small as possible so as not to reduce the bandwidth. so cable capacity and input capacity of the tube (Miller capacity) add up. an ECC808 has ten times smaller value. it has a different pin assignment you either have to re-solder or use a suitable socket adapter. you will be surprised how much better this is in terms of sound.

Converter / adapter ECC808 to ECC83 or 6N2P | eBay

Converter / adapter ECC808 to ECC83 or 6N2P | TV, Audio i Video, Unikaty TV, audio i video, Cz??ci i akcesoria | eBay!

www.ebay.at

My Avatar is this tube

 

[DasguteOhr]

Hello Stephan

,Sorry what do you mean by no point of criticism.I just don’t understand what you wanting so say.Communication error my side.Sorry I am old and not very clever.I never heard these tubes and maybe they are really the best,I don’t know them,but maybe I should get a pair.

Everybody got a different taste,what sounds best and all our systems are so different and all the room acoustics are different,yes different tubes will perform different in different places.Nothing is ever the same,even if you just mute your system for one minute and play it again it will always be different,because time has changed.

Best does not exists,just best to us at a certain time,the factor time changes constantly and we also change with it.That is the reason,I wake up in the morning and suddenly don’t like the sound of my system anymore and then change something and feel more in touch with the music.

Our biggest enemy is time and the surch for the perfect sound,if you a mad audiophile,like me.The one we can not stop or change (time)and the other one we will never find ( perfect sound).These are unfortunately facts ,I wish myself I had the power to change them.I been teaching most of my adult life quantum mathematics and quantum mechanics and what time really is and 40 years later,I still go no idea whatsoever,very confusing issue.

I will first listen to all my 300b’s and maybe then if the need comes up I will order a pair.I hope it doesn’t because without the need to change and buy a new paid I can save 500 Euros ,but knowing myself,you planted a seed and will most probably go for it,sometimes in the future.

I was looking for a 300b that has a fine resolution like an EL84 without losing the beautiful organic sound of a 300b. I found the TJ 300b perfect for me.

 

[thomask]

I was looking for a 300b that has a fine resolution like an EL84 without losing the beautiful organic sound of a 300b. I found the TJ 300b perfect for me.

i had used Psvane Acme 300b for 3years around 9 k hours with Line Magnetic 508.

It sounds detailed and sweet with overall nice balance.

I got mine from the followin source.

Psvane Acme Serie 300B Hi-end Vacuum Tube Replace WE300B Matched Pair [Psvane Acme Serie 300B] - $835.99 USD

Psvane Acme Serie 300B Hi-end Vacuum Tube Replace WE300B Matched Pair [Psvane Acme Serie 300B]

www.hifi-amplifiers.com

 

[Music and Wine]

i had used Psvane Acme 300b for 3years around 9 k hours with Line Magnetic 508.

It sounds detailed and sweet with overall nice balance.

I got mine from the followin source.

Psvane Acme Serie 300B Hi-end Vacuum Tube Replace WE300B Matched Pair [Psvane Acme Serie 300B] - $835.99 USD

Psvane Acme Serie 300B Hi-end Vacuum Tube Replace WE300B Matched Pair [Psvane Acme Serie 300B]

www.hifi-amplifiers.com

 

[DasguteOhr]

i had used Psvane Acme 300b for 3years around 9 k hours with Line Magnetic 508.

It sounds detailed and sweet with overall nice balance.

I got mine from the followin source.

Psvane Acme Serie 300B Hi-end Vacuum Tube Replace WE300B Matched Pair [Psvane Acme Serie 300B] - $835.99 USD

Psvane Acme Serie 300B Hi-end Vacuum Tube Replace WE300B Matched Pair [Psvane Acme Serie 300B]

www.hifi-amplifiers.com

I also used them, a little too thin for my taste for example like Hans Theessink voice. very clean in the bass but too slim for me. we both found the right tube, it's great.

 

[Music and Wine]

Hi

I have read very positive reviews about the acme tubes,but haven’t used any of them.Mmm,could be very interesting,if they combine the strong points of a old WE300B and the Sophia Golden Princess,that could be a winner,let me sleep over it.

Just have to find out ,what time the ups or dhl or fedex people deliver every day,then I will send my wife shopping on the day these people come and deliver.She won’t notice a new pair of tubes.She always tells me I got enough tubes.I feel she got enough shoes.Men and women will never agree what the other one needs to survive,for her it is shoes and for me tubes.

It is very interesting,now we can choose between many different 300b and 30 years ago?Just one option and we were all happy.Too much choice,can make life difficult or maybe better but definitely more expensive and confusing.

My amp must first settle and I must be confident that everything is running perfectly.I still want to play around with different biasing on the amp to decide what sounds best for me and then,maybe try something new.To voice a component is very difficult and takes time and in the end you are still not sure.

All the options and so few answers.Solution more wine and more wine.

Please don’t take my comments seriously.I hardly drink any alcohol at all..I am just joking and trying to explain the difficulty of choices.Quote aradox of Choices,more is less written by Barry Schwartz an American psychologist.

In the end ,choices are a big part of the fun and keeps old men thinking ,some exercise for my fading brain or is it still developing,who knows

keep on rolling these beautiful bottles and tell use all your experience and part off any personal experience is failure.Most we learn by failure,so tell us please,which tubes were your biggest disappointment. Let us learn from each other and save really big bucks .

Cheers

 

[Music and Wine]

Good choice of music,I like it ,great recording as well.

Now both off your choices make more sense to me, your description “ Das gute Ohr” ,the acme 300b is leaner than TJ Globeshape,now it makes sense and I am getting a reference point.If I want a leaner tube,I may get a acme tube and if I want a richer sound I may get the TJ Globeshape.

This helps a lot and is narrowing down my choices and I am getting some feel of how both tubes sound in comparison.

It is always nice too get a comparison


Thanks both of you
Cheers

 

[DasguteOhr]

When ever get chance listen to a SET El84 amp with Fostex FE 206 Fullrange Speakers ....pleassse hear it is amazing resolution.

 

[Music and Wine]

Hi

I would love to listen to this combination and setup.The next time I am in Germany ,I must try to find a place where I can find a setup like it.I have to visit my family again and some University colleagues and friends.Nowadays travelling is much more difficult than in the past,all these Corona restrictions,make travel a nightmare .

Vielen Dank fuer den Tipp ,ja,sowas muss ich mir mal anhoeren.Ich bin ein grosser Fan von SET.Ich muss mal wieder meine Heimat besuchen.

Sorry ,just some words in German,thanking him for the advice and telling him,the next time I visit Germany I will try to listen to a system like his got.I have to visit my place of birth again.Everybody should know what I am writing,no secrets.

Cheers und Servus,also a German word for Cheers,Bye Bye

 

[christoph]

Servus,also a German word for Cheers

Rather Bavarian, right?

 

[Music and Wine]

Hi

Only born in Germany and studied about 8 years in Germany,the rest I stayed in Canada,US ,Switzerland and the UK and South Africa and Down Undet. Been living 55 years in many countries.To be honest I don’t know what I am.I got 3 different Passports and Nationalities.

Born in Germany,but never developed the German mentality at all .I am a New world boy
Cheers

 

[Music and Wine]

Hi Christstoph

Looking at your equipment,you could be German or from German descent.

Cheers

 

[Mendel]

if you use the ECC83 in a phonoamp I have a good tip for you. When working with SUT it is important to keep the capacity as small as possible so as not to reduce the bandwidth. so cable capacity and input capacity of the tube (Miller capacity) add up. an ECC808 has ten times smaller value. it has a different pin assignment you either have to re-solder or use a suitable socket adapter. you will be surprised how much better this is in terms of sound.

Converter / adapter ECC808 to ECC83 or 6N2P | eBay

Converter / adapter ECC808 to ECC83 or 6N2P | TV, Audio i Video, Unikaty TV, audio i video, Cz??ci i akcesoria | eBay!

www.ebay.at

My Avatar is this tube

Very Interesting! I am not familiar with the ecc808. It can be used in place of ECC83 in a phono stage? I just picked up a new phono stage (Coincident Statement) which uses 4 12ax7/ECC83 in its circuit.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Very Interesting! I am not familiar with the ecc808. It can be used in place of ECC83 in a phono stage? I just picked up a new phono stage (Coincident Statement) which uses 4 12ax7/ECC83 in its circuit.

Yes can be used with adapter tube socket.
ECC808 is the penultimate new development from Telefunken, lower noise, trimmed for low microphonics. an earthed protective screen between the triode systems. I say cheeky perfectly trimmed for audio playback.
one of the best phono preamps with these tubes works in a Klein & Hummel amplifier