It would be a very great accomplishment on Mr VdH's part if an apprentice had mastered building Colibri, and good news for those that are buying now. I don't understand what the fuss was about ( and it appears to be a non issue anyway )
van den Hul Colibri Grand Cru
- Thread starter PeterA
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Far as I know he builds all Colibris. I know your experience, here is my first Master Signature..
This was returned to Holland. Its replacement also had a slightly misaligned cantilever, not nearly as severe, and I used for a while. It went back to Holland for its hours service and returned as a 5R and as bonzo suggests, it is brilliant, superb. I have another MstrSig modified by vdH to fit on a Tri-Planar arm - it was fine right out of the box.
You can tell the one above was an earlier one from the metal inserts for the cartridge bolts. Those were simply press fit and could fall out. Now the bolts thread directly into the wood body, no inserts.
These are wonderful cartridges - the best I've heard for orchestral and choral. I trust Mr. AJ will continue to build the MS and GC; I hope to get another.
Even my bad eyes can see readily that this cantilever is misaligned. How could this cartridge have been let out of the "factory" like this? (I understand that this is a rhetorical question.)
More vDH handiwork here that I held in my hand and saw with my own two eyes recently. Mounting holes were visibly misdrilled off-center as well as at an inconsistent and incorrect pitch such that they do not align to standard spacing in any headshell. Generator assembly visibly askew and off center as well.
It’s too bad you couldn’t mount the cartridge in any head shell to listen to it. It makes me wonder how the previous owner listened to this cartridge. One of my Colibrí‘s has metal inserts at the mounting holes and they don’t look anything like the ones in your cartridge.
I can understand why you moved on to the opus one. It’s an excellent cartridge.
In my case, I moved on because of its sound after having received a replacement. These are thin and shrill sounding carts confirmed via needle drops, which I can understand work well with the counterbalancing aspects of Lamm gear. But not a fit in my system. Mine was sold and the new owner is very happy.
It doesn’t sound like your cartridge was set up properly. There are lots of cartridges that sound good with Lamm gear. Just ask Tang. I heard four different ones in Utah. I’ve had Ortofon SPU and Technics MM in my new system. They all sound good with Lamm.
I just took my cartridge over to MadFloyd‘s house and did a direct compare with the atlas Lambda. The Colibri sounded fantastic. Nothing shrill about it at all and we could’ve listen to it all day long. All three listeners agreed.
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I haven't said anything about other carts with Lamm. I've only commented on the vDH with Lamm. This certainly is a highly touted combo.
Looks like a grade school shop project. Not nearly adequate for a phono cartridge at this price point, Sorry!
IMHO That explains very much about the tendency to prefer roll-off/smooth sounding copper cables (I don’t mean all copper cables) on some systems. On the other hand I listened a couple of Lamm amplifiers in my friends houses both hybrid and tube based models and always with silver cables all around. There hasn’t been any problem with silver cables it was creamy smooth, detailed as long as cables are top notch and not something from Van Den Hul inventory. IMO Lamm makes incredibly good sounding amplifiers.
Opposite of Van Den Hul’s roll-off cardboard like sounding cables I hear a thin sound from their cartridges as @bazelio said.
For example imagine you have a watt/puppy or alexandria LF with mark levinson amplification and transparent cables then Van Den Hul cartridges may fit that system very good. If your components are slow and fat sounding or if you are slowing down signal using poor AC line and/or basic cables than you may need extra shrill that Van Den Hul cartridges bring which may be perceived as speed. That’s my observation about VDH YMMW.
Vdh carts have been successfully used In vintage Western electrics, tannoys, the living voice vox Palladian, and high resolution TAD drivers (which are relatively higher frequency and thinner sounding compared to paper and some other vintage drivers) with the TAD tweeter. While what you say about the match sounds theoretically and intuitively correct, in practice it is not so. A good vdh cart sounds great all across and the bad ones sound bad all across. I have heard them in all those systems plus Magico.
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We all have different experiences and preferences. I have heard my particular Colibri in the three systems listed below, plus a similar Colibri in an owner's four separate systems. The overall impression I got from these cartridges is superior information retrieval or resolution. These are three of the system, each having quite different turntable/arm combinations and electronics and cables:
1. SME TT, Pass XA, Magico Q3, Transparent cables
2. Micro Seiki TT, Lamm SET, Vitavox horn, vintage cables
3. Kronos TT, CH Precision, Magico M Pros, Audioquest/Zenwave cables
I set the cartridge up in all three systems. I listened to the same LPs. I directly compared different cartridges to the Colibri in the same systems. The attribute that most struck me with the Colibri was information retrieval relative to the other cartridges. The tonal balance was similar from system to system, and from cartridge to cartridge, nothing shrill, nothing overtly colored. All the cartridges sounded good and there were minor differences in balance and weight, but the major difference was resolution in terms of timbre, spatial information, and dynamics. The Colibri worked well in all three of these quite different systems. The variety and combination of components contributed to somewhat different system presentations, but the overall sound was not a result of system balancing between the Colibri and a particular brand of electronics or cable material as is being suggested here. I can not speak to the experience that others have had, but this is the context of my direct experience with my Colibri in these different systems.
Here is a more specific example. My new system has two tonearms. The front arm was set up by David Karmeli with one of my Colibris. I set up the back arm first with my vintage Technics MM which David supervising, and then later a friend's Ortofon SPU A85. There were indeed differences between the cartridges. The Technics is slightly more nuanced and sounds very natural, but it did not have the extension or the resolution. I like it with small scale classical and jazz. The Ortofon has the richest tonal balance, but also lacked resolution. It was heavenly with string quartets and voices. My various Colibris all sound slightly different. Most are not quite as nuanced or as rich sounding, as the Technics or Ortofon, but the resolution and dynamics are incredible in all of them. I have one Colibri which has all the nuance of the Technics, not quite the rich tonal colors of the Ortofon, but it does sound more natural than both and is the cartridge I use for 90% or my listening.
These are all hand made cartridges by a master designer. There is variation between the samples, even of the same model. I understand why some prefer other cartridges, and there are many wonderful ones from which to choose. In my experience, one prefers the Colibri for what it can do across systems, not because it balances the house sound of a particular electronics brand or certain types of cables. At this level, systems are usually well balanced and resolving, and people choose cartridges for a particular type of presentation, not because they solve a particular sonic signature of a system.
1. SME TT, Pass XA, Magico Q3, Transparent cables
2. Micro Seiki TT, Lamm SET, Vitavox horn, vintage cables
3. Kronos TT, CH Precision, Magico M Pros, Audioquest/Zenwave cables
I set the cartridge up in all three systems. I listened to the same LPs. I directly compared different cartridges to the Colibri in the same systems. The attribute that most struck me with the Colibri was information retrieval relative to the other cartridges. The tonal balance was similar from system to system, and from cartridge to cartridge, nothing shrill, nothing overtly colored. All the cartridges sounded good and there were minor differences in balance and weight, but the major difference was resolution in terms of timbre, spatial information, and dynamics. The Colibri worked well in all three of these quite different systems. The variety and combination of components contributed to somewhat different system presentations, but the overall sound was not a result of system balancing between the Colibri and a particular brand of electronics or cable material as is being suggested here. I can not speak to the experience that others have had, but this is the context of my direct experience with my Colibri in these different systems.
Here is a more specific example. My new system has two tonearms. The front arm was set up by David Karmeli with one of my Colibris. I set up the back arm first with my vintage Technics MM which David supervising, and then later a friend's Ortofon SPU A85. There were indeed differences between the cartridges. The Technics is slightly more nuanced and sounds very natural, but it did not have the extension or the resolution. I like it with small scale classical and jazz. The Ortofon has the richest tonal balance, but also lacked resolution. It was heavenly with string quartets and voices. My various Colibris all sound slightly different. Most are not quite as nuanced or as rich sounding, as the Technics or Ortofon, but the resolution and dynamics are incredible in all of them. I have one Colibri which has all the nuance of the Technics, not quite the rich tonal colors of the Ortofon, but it does sound more natural than both and is the cartridge I use for 90% or my listening.
These are all hand made cartridges by a master designer. There is variation between the samples, even of the same model. I understand why some prefer other cartridges, and there are many wonderful ones from which to choose. In my experience, one prefers the Colibri for what it can do across systems, not because it balances the house sound of a particular electronics brand or certain types of cables. At this level, systems are usually well balanced and resolving, and people choose cartridges for a particular type of presentation, not because they solve a particular sonic signature of a system.
Right, and successful systems are built in a very deliberate manner to work well with vDH carts. Advice on how to best achieve optimal results come from those who have already benefitted from substantial accumulated practical experience. It's not a cartridge - and I've heard many samples now - that should be recommended as a flexible, general purpose cartridge. And the end result is not as simple as speaker choice or cable choice - though certainly "wrong" individual choices can tip the scale.
Brian I think you’re onto something here. I retained two things from my old system: the vdH Colibri cartridge and the Ching Cheng power cords. When I decided to replace my old system and listened very deliberately to various component options, I decided I would configure the entire system around the two things I kept from my old system. In other words, my new vintage system from the 1980s Japanese turntable, to 20-year-old electronics to 60 year old corner horn speakers, every decision I made was based on a system that would sound good with the Colibrí and Cheng Cheng power cords.
A good audio buddy of mine heard my system and decided to buy something very similar. He already found a nice Micro Seiki SX 8000 II and the Lamm LL1 Sig four box preamp. He plans on getting the same Lamm LP 2.1 deluxe phonostage. Depending on which speakers he chooses, he will buy the appropriate Lamm amplifier.
The curious thing is that he is deliberately building his system around the Airtight supreme cartridge I sold him, not a vdH. Down the road, he may be choosing between the Airtight Opus 1 and a vdH Colibri, but the system will exist prior to choosing the new cartridge.
Peter, how did Ian like the VDH in his system ? Is he ordering one ?
Hi Lagonda,
Ian seemed to really enjoy the cartridge in his system, as did I and the other guest. He had brought his older Altas SL to my place as well as his Opus One. Both sounded great in my old system and I would love to hear them in my new one. With Ian's SS amps and diamond coated tweeters and audiophile cables and cords, we heard a very natural tone on a cello concerto and Sonny Rollins, Way Out West. Superb bass and drums as well as the saxophone. No harsh, aggressive highs, stridance or shrillness, just the engaging, convincing, and believable sound of instruments in space. Ian might comment further. I do not think he is ordering a vdH anytime soon. He really likes his Atlas Lambda and has other priorities. Unfortunately, our friend Al M. was not there for the comparison. The third guy is our friend who is getting a new vintage system based on the Micro Seiki and Lamms.
I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect that the Airtight would not be my choice in an all-Lamm system.
Tang seems to like his in his Lamm system. I think Kedar heard it at Tang's too and likes it. In fact, Tang just wrote that he refers to his Opus 1 as a reference to confirm the fine tuning of his Colibri. People have different tastes, for sure.
I'm not indexing off what others think or what anyone else likes, but knowing both carts myself, I'd probably go with the vDH in a Lamm system over the Opus 1. Maybe others as well, including the newer Lyras - assuming they get sustains and decays right.
BTW, I just reintroduced Ching Cheng power cords into my second system to remove some of the edge, and it worked like a charm. Ching Cheng will stick around in that system for now.
Brian, do you think the vdH is more like the Opus or the newer Lyras? I had thought the Lyra and vdH were more similar, but now I am not so sure. I now think the Opus and Colibri are more similar to each other than either is to the new Lyra, but my comparisons have been rather limited.
Your power cord comment is interesting. I introduced Ching Cheng into my system because the audiophile cords I tried introduced edge into the sound which I did not like. They enhanced certain things and homogenized the sound. The stock cords were better too, but the Ching Cheng was more resolving than the stock cords. Funny how everyone has a different experience.
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