van den Hul Colibri Grand Cru

[kodomo]

Okan, do I recall correctly that Mr. VdH set yours to operate with the 18g effective mass of the 4P?

@petek - It's worth pointing out the effective mass - earlier 11" 4P brochures incorrectly listed it as 14g and the manual listed EM at 13g. Correct spec is 18g, per Franc K. The specs for the Master Sig and Grand Cru come written inside the box lid and effective mass compatibility is given as a range. From my own and pictures I've seen, few if any of these cartridges show 18g withing that range. I don't know if you have the 4P and are considering the cartridge or vice versa. If you're looking to buy a Grand Cru you might consider asking for one suited for 18g eff. mass, otherwise it may require a trip to Holland for modification.

If you have the 9-inch 4P, its eff. mass is 13g which should already be compatible with most of the MS and GC. The 14-inch is rated at 19g.

Fwiw, I'm very happy with the 4P + MS sonics.

Yes Tim, it is adjusted for a 4 point 18gr. This is what has been told by AJ. It may be not preferring the sound, some of my friends loved it and I can not say I also found it incredible on certain recordings. It is much more dynamic than my current cartridge and digs deeper too but it is not for me. If anyone wants it, it sits waits in a shelf

 

[jpetek]

I already have a Gran Cru that I operate with a MAX 282. Now I want to buy a second turntable. One of the favorites is a Kuzma XL DC or Air with a 4 point 11 inch. The other is a Pluto turntable with a Pluto Tonearm. Third option a Triangle Refernce SE with a Durand Kairos

 

[PeterA]

Kevin Scott ran master signature with 4p on the vox palladian at Munich, only time I liked the Vox

Might it have been because of the way the Vox was set up in the room?

 

[bonzo75]

Might it have been because of the way the Vox was set up in the room?

No I meant because of the vdh. Vox usually sounds too syrupy and dull in Munich and vdh gave it a nice transparent life. That Munich vdh was playing a lot, also in the western electric room

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I already have a Gran Cru that I operate with a MAX 282. Now I want to buy a second turntable. One of the favorites is a Kuzma XL DC or Air with a 4 point 11 inch. The other is a Pluto turntable with a Pluto Tonearm. Third option a Triangle Refernce SE with a Durand Kairos

really enjoy the Durand Kairos on my EMT948.

 

[crosswind]

Last Thursday my Grand Cru 5R arrived. It took over from a standard Stradivarius (that only stayed a couple of weeks before getting upgraded) and has so far only been played a few hours.

Mounted in my 10.5” Reed 3P on a Bergmann Modi it should bring many years of pure pleasure.

 

[TrueTriode]

Last Thursday my Grand Cru 5R arrived. It took over from a standard Stradivarius (that only stayed a couple of weeks before getting upgraded) and has so far only been played a few hours.

Mounted in my 10.5” Reed 3P on a Bergmann Modi it should bring many years of pure pleasure.

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Your TT set up is very nice. I have to say The VDH Grand Cru to my ears doesn’t sound as nice as the old Colibri. The new edition series from VDH are all done by his employees, very different designs and specs. Happy Listening!

 

[PeterA]

Your TT set up is very nice. I have to say The VDH Grand Cru to my ears doesn’t sound as nice as the old Colibri. The new edition series from VDH are all done by his employees, very different designs and specs. Happy Listening!

True Triode Guy, How would you describe the differences between the old and new Colibri, both design/specs and sound?

 

[PeterA]

 

[crosswind]

Your TT set up is very nice. I have to say The VDH Grand Cru to my ears doesn’t sound as nice as the old Colibri. The new edition series from VDH are all done by his employees, very different designs and specs. Happy Listening!

Thank You!

According to my dutch broker this one is hand crafted by mr. Van den Hul himself.

 

[bonzo75]

Last Thursday my Grand Cru 5R arrived. It took over from a standard Stradivarius (that only stayed a couple of weeks before getting upgraded) and has so far only been played a few hours.

Mounted in my 10.5” Reed 3P on a Bergmann Modi it should bring many years of pure pleasure.

View attachment 90644View attachment 90645View attachment 90646View attachment 90647

Hi you are Leif's friend from Oslo right? I had been to your place with him before the pandemic started, and had loved the vdh strad with the SME V on the Avid. Is the GC keeping the magic, though I see you have moved it to the Bergmann

 

[crosswind]

Hi you are Leif's friend from Oslo right? I had been to your place with him before the pandemic started, and had loved the vdh strad with the SME V on the Avid. Is the GC keeping the magic, though I see you have moved it to the Bergmann

Hi bonzo75, no I’m not that guy, however I know them both well. We all live close to each other. I was at Leifs place the other day picking up a B60 for my FR64S. The one you refer to has sold his Avid and now uses a Bergmann Galder, TW Acustic Raven Black Knight and a modified Garrard 301 with multiple arms on all of them.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi bonzo75, no I’m not that guy, however I know them both well. We all live close to each other. I was at Leifs place the other day picking up a B60 for my FR64S. The one you refer to has sold his Avid and now uses a Bergmann Galder, TW Acustic Raven Black Knight and a modified Garrard 301 with multiple arms on all of them.

I did hear his Galder and Garrard back then, I preferred the Avid set up the most, and he explained that was due to the combo of the SME and the VDH as he had been moving that around and at that moment it was on his Avid. I would love to hear the vdh with your Bergmann linear tracker next time I visit.

 

[howiebrou]

I did hear his Galder and Garrard back then, I preferred the Avid set up the most, and he explained that was due to the combo of the SME and the VDH as he had been moving that around and at that moment it was on his Avid. I would love to hear the vdh with your Bergmann linear tracker next time I visit.

Was it an Avid Acutus?

 

[bonzo75]

Was it an Avid Acutus?

No, I have heard that in another system, this was the basic Avid model. It sounded good because of the SME + strad combo

 

[TrueTriode]

True Triode Guy, How would you describe the differences between the old and new Colibri, both design/specs and sound?

From my setup using a Reference Forsell 2 air tangent tonearm. The Old Colibri track much better, the retrieval of highs was much more detailed & bass was articulated. If you look at the specs., the old Colibri specs wise, lower in mv compared to the New Colibri. The cantilever of the new Colibri somehow seems very weak and fragile, if you look closely, my cartridge straight out of the box wasn’t perfectly aligned, you might be luck that Mr. VDH built yours but for sure Mr. VDH did not built my cartridge!

 

[bonzo75]

you might be luck that Mr. VDH built yours but for sure Mr. VDH did not built my cartridge!

Inconsistency has been a big problem with the VDH strad, but the ones that are very good are brilliant. The other ones are usually not listenable and quite etchy. But I understand this was a problem with the older colibris as well, yours might have been good

 

[PeterA]

From my setup using a Reference Forsell 2 air tangent tonearm. The Old Colibri track much better, the retrieval of highs was much more detailed & bass was articulated. If you look at the specs., the old Colibri specs wise, lower in mv compared to the New Colibri. The cantilever of the new Colibri somehow seems very weak and fragile, if you look closely, my cartridge straight out of the box wasn’t perfectly aligned, you might be luck that Mr. VDH built yours but for sure Mr. VDH did not built my cartridge!

I have four (4) Colibris. The box on left is an "old" XPP (plastic body, platinum windings) Colibri. This cartridge's output is 0.4mV as clearly seen on the box. My newest Colibri is a Grand Cru that I received about eight weeks ago. Its output is 0.35mV as clearly seen on the box. The old Colibri does NOT have lower output than the new Colibri. Your statement is false in the case of my two cartridges, both new and not modified.

I also have other Colibris, a Master Signature and a GC 5R. Those had outputs of 1.1 mV each but have both been lowered to 0.3mV during trips back to van den Hul. The high outputs sounded great in my old inefficient system, but the output was too much for the amplifier gain and 105dB and 16 ohm speakers of new system I have exchanged many emails with Mr. vd Hul and he clearly built all four of my Colibris. I can not say who builds the other models, but I have not heard or read anywhere that his employees are building them.

 

[cuntigh]

I remember the old Sugano San in his last years didn’t built the Koetsu carts himself but he did checked them all.
Who told AJ didn’t made or at least controlled the quality of the VDH carts ? And why the old Colibris from a few years back we’re not quality constant at that time ?
we have to be careful saying things like that about a legendary carts builder.

 

[crosswind]

I just recieved an e-mail from my broker forwarding an answer from mr. Van den Hul himself where van den Hul states he is building carts day and night to cope with the demand. Does not look at all as his employees are doing all the building from what I recieved. Pretty obvious to me he still uses his time making Colibris.