van den Hul Colibri Grand Cru

[PeterA]

Then how do you know this "increased amount of information" isn't excessive and artificial detail and exaggerated leading edge transient response if you are not comparing it, in some conceptual way, to the quantity and quality of sonic information you hear live in the concert hall?

In what way are the Colibris more "natural," than the Opus 1, if you are not in some conceptual way comparing them to live music? If these videos have nothing to do with live music, then, to me, you are simply hearing "more" (a concept solely of quantity) from the Colibris than you are from the Opus, and that that evaluation is divorced from any notion of natural sound or live music.

Putting it differently, what is your notion of "natural" in this context if it has "nothing to do with live music?"

Hello Ron,

I am assessing the quality of the sound between the videos and directly comparing what I hear through the headphones. The fact that I recognize the sound as classical music means that I have some reference of the sound of live music in my memory of having attended concerts. So yes, there is some reference to live music, but my comments are based on the direct comparison of the videos and not a comparison of what I hear from the iPhone through headphones to my memory of what I heard at the BSO before COVID.

A speaker manufacturer once asked me if I could tell that it was my mother and not some stranger on the phone. I answered yes of course. He then told me I have good hearing. I thought that was kind of silly. I guess I could only answer that question because I have some memory of the way my mother's voice actually sounds and I heard hints of that sound through the telephone earpiece.

To answer your first question, I made my comments based on what I think is more actual information, not just some high frequency distortion creating the impression of more detail. Of course it is only from a video on YouTube, and I would know much more if I heard Tang's actual system live. To me, the warmth added to the thin recording is more the result of the colorations and accents of the Opus 1 than the thin sound from the Colibris heard on the video. I hear a more honest presentation from the Colibris because I know from hearing the cartridges in my own system live and from hearing past videos of Tang's system the inherent differences between the Colibris and the Opus. Others like Brian will hear the Opus as more honest and the Colibris as colored/distorted.

My notion of "natural" is a sound freer of colorations as presented in the videos based on my memory of live sound. I know these are recordings of classical music through an excellent stereo system and not some noise from Mars or a metal tooling factory because of my past experiences with live music.

You asked me if I "feel the "increased amount of information" (I) hear from the Colibris is consistent with the amount of information (I) hear live in the concert hall?" My answer is still NO. The amount of information I hear live in a concert hall is orders of magnitude more. And I hear more relative information from the Colibris than I do from the Opus in Tang's videos.

 

[howiebrou]

If i can hear both words my hearing must so far gone that differentiating between MS and GC becomes pointless! Try it!

 

[bazelio]

Then how do you know this "increased amount of information" isn't excessive and artificial detail and exaggerated leading edge transient response

I'll add my thoughts here, videos and impressions thereof aside. The VdH MS or GC does not have an "increased amount of information" vs other top end carts such as Opus 1. What it does have is an exaggerated or hyped or tipped-up (choose your descriptor) presence region. An artifact of this is exaggerated sibilance which is well known and documented on WBF. But another artifact is this perception of greater detail retrieval. In fact, it is not the case and is really no different than if I were to EQ the signal. The "additional energy" from VdH is an artifact of (too) high output in the 0.75 to 1.1 mV range for MC, and very likely in many systems also the very high internal resistance in the range of 28-40 Ohms which can easily contribute to bass rolloff (lean sound) and treble spikes. All of this is absolutely not to say that these cartridges can not sound fantastic under the right circumstances. I think they do. It is to say, however, that there is a very significant "YMMV" element here based on system characteristics, and that a system well-optimized for this cartridge is almost necessarily under-optimized for most others.

 

[KeithR]

Peter, I'm not taking these videos as seriously as you seem to be. I'm simply listening casually for fun and sharing what I hear. I believe that trying to arrive at meaningful or absolute conclusions in this manner is pointless. The conclusions I've reached about VdH carts are based on personal in-home experience, and time spent listening to others' systems in the flesh.

Thank you for your real experience.

Tang's VdH video made me run for the hills. Like 80s cd bad and I have a hard time believing that to be the case.

 

[PeterA]

If i can hear both words my hearing must so far gone that differentiating between MS and GC becomes pointless! Try it!

That is really strange. I heard both words depending on which one I was thinking about hearing. I read the one word but heard the other if I was thinking about it. Must be digital manipulation and blending or something odd.

 

[adyc]

That is really strange. I heard both words depending on which one I was thinking about hearing. I read the one word but heard the other if I was thinking about it. Must be digital manipulation and blending or something odd.

I only hear Brainstorm no matter.

 

[bonzo75]

I'll add my thoughts here, videos and impressions thereof aside. The VdH MS or GC does not have an "increased amount of information" vs other top end carts such as Opus 1. What it does have is an exaggerated or hyped or tipped-up (choose your descriptor) presence region. An artifact of this is exaggerated sibilance which is well known and documented on WBF. But another artifact is this perception of greater detail retrieval. In fact, it is not the case and is really no different than if I were to EQ the signal. The "additional energy" from VdH is an artifact of (too) high output in the 0.75 to 1.1 mV range for MC, and very likely in many systems also the very high internal resistance in the range of 28-40 Ohms which can easily contribute to bass rolloff (lean sound) and treble spikes. All of this is absolutely not to say that these cartridges can not sound fantastic under the right circumstances. I think they do. It is to say, however, that there is a very significant "YMMV" element here based on system characteristics, and that a system well-optimized for this cartridge is almost necessarily under-optimized for most others.

The MS has 39 ohms for the high output carts and you have to drop to 0.38 output to get 12 ohms. However with GC you get 12 ohms on 0.7 mv output

 

[bazelio]

with GC you get 12 ohms on 0.7 mv output

That needs to be measured to be verified. I doubt it.

 

[Tango]

Video comparison of carts in the same system is helpful in getting a "broad" difference between carts. But it is a must to get comments from the owner of the system who did the a/b to confirm what you hear from the video. Great thing about video is you can play it over and over to remind how it sound. Don't forget that we sometime want to spend more than $10,000 for a tiny piece of product no bigger than 2 centimeter. Which dealer can show you the comparison of Opus1, Atlas SL Lamda and Koetzu Coralstone Diamond like Gian put efforts in making those videos. His system snd setup experience is top notch so the difference can reveal on video. Of course it is nothing near hearing the real thing. But those videos definitely show different presentation of those carts. In my case, I wrote two aspects of sound difference between the MS and GC: the ambient and tone, because they are obvious and canbe heard even on video. Other aspects can actually be heard too depending on the video listening skill of a person. Many of what PeterA and adyc commented from the video are surprisingly the same as what I hear in real. Peter even mentioned the word "dull" and that is the word that came to my mind too. "Clarity" is another thing that I bet striked him. Adyc is on the same wave length as mine saying "Opus1 has more body and MS has more clarity. I do not think MS lacks any body. It is kind of different presentation." It could also be that both Peter and adyc have vdh in their system so they pick out the character better from the videos. Anyhow so many people buy these expensive carts from reading reviews and users rave. MikeL put a spotlight and set up a stage for the Esturo more than the dealers themself. Bonzo and ddk also introduced the vdh to its standing now. You just take their words for it? Go to Mike's to listen the Esturo at its max in real. Fantastic sound. But all you hear is his system. Unless he play his other carts next to it and play with the same gears, you wont learn anything from the Esturo. Or Go to Utah, ddk has multiple arms with different carts. Are you Ked the traveller? Often one made mistake buying only realizing the cart was too strong or strident or colored or dull for their preference. Video makes more tangible data point choosing a cart in the shopping list. Is there a vdh or Esturo dealer in your country? Do they have the mega bucks demo cart for you to demo at home without paying? How would you know if you would prefer the Esturo over the Atlas Lamda? Hearing a vs b even from video could do some good stoping sensitive ears from buying the cart. But as Peter implied don't listen to one video and generalize when there are so many videos of the same system available. I am not writing to convince gear to anyone.

Ps. No cart increases amount of information. What's in the groove is in the groove equal to all. It is the ability to reveal that is different. The system ability. The cart ability.

Tang

 

[bonzo75]

That needs to be measured to be verified. I doubt it.

It was by audioquattr at vdh's place. He measured his multiple carts

 

[PeterA]

Dear Tang, You might not use the audiophile glossary of terms, but what you wrote above is brilliant in it’s clarity. Videos can be useful in their limited ways If the listener is willing.

your videos are a catalog of system progress and a reminder. Combined with your words about the recording and what you actually hear, they are very useful.

They also support spirited discussions and often disagreements as we see in this thread. I really value your contributions.

 

[microstrip]

It was by audioquattr at vdh's place. He measured his multiple carts

I hope he did not measure the resistance of the cartridge directly, it could damage it seriously. It can be only measured indirectly. Or are you saying that van den Hul made the measurements himself?

 

[bonzo75]

I hope he did not measure the resistance of the cartridge directly, it could damage it seriously. It can be only measured indirectly. Or are you saying that van den Hul made the measurements himself?

Either vdh or vdh's son did.

 

[bazelio]

I hope he did not measure the resistance of the cartridge directly, it could damage it seriously. It can be only measured indirectly. Or are you saying that van den Hul made the measurements himself?

Either vdh or vdh's son did.

It needs to be measured to verify. Place DMM probes across a 0.5 mil scrap wire first and measure its DC resistance, if you're concerned about it. The wire will be no worse for wear.

And in any event, its not critical. The point here is that it's a relatively high impedance, high output cart. I had a typo above, as I meant 18-40 ohms. 18 was what I heard from the horse's mouth previously as the low end.

 

[bonzo75]

That is really strange. I heard both words depending on which one I was thinking about hearing. I read the one word but heard the other if I was thinking about it. Must be digital manipulation and blending or something odd.

I could hear both. Then I showed it to my gf she could hear only one (the green one). However, while she was looking at them, I could hear both alternately, but at one time she said she kept looking at the same one, yet I could hear alternately.

 

[eggogbacon]

Hi I have a VDH Colibri XGW Spesial 0.55 mv. i received 1.5 month ago and i like it so much that i sold my Lyra Kleos and i ordered a VDH Colibri Grand Cru 0.75 mv. I can see from the picture that there is 5 R Signed in the Box can anybody tell me what it mean
Best regards Odd

 

[infinitely baffled]

Hello Odd, welcome aboard and congratulations on your purchases

The five r's indicates your cartridge has been subject to a higher level of quality control than previous vdH cartridges ?

 

[eggogbacon]

Hello Odd, welcome aboard and congratulations on your purchases

The five r's indicates your cartridge has been subject to a higher level of quality control than previous vdH cartridges ?

Thank you so much for the welcome and thank you for the clear answer

 

[infinitely baffled]

My pleasure

 

[howiebrou]

Hi I have a VDH Colibri XGW Spesial 0.55 mv. i received 1.5 month ago and i like it so much that i sold my Lyra Kleos and i ordered a VDH Colibri Grand Cru 0.75 mv. I can see from the picture that there is 5 R Signed in the Box can anybody tell me what it mean
Best regards Odd

Congrats! Must sound great on your Acutus. I am currently trying to decide what arm to put on my Acutus. How do you like the TA7000?