Various DAC Audition Impressions

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Didn’t Brian Berdan set them up? He’s excellent.
There were problems with the setup that Im sure all who were there would agree.

Unless the Wilson ratio has changed wherein distance from tweeter to ear divided by distance from tweeter to tweeter should be from 1.0- 1.25, Patrick's ratio put his sitting position IMO too far back with a ratio of 1.32. Also there was a very obvious shift of the soundstage to the far left. Looking at his right speaker the toe in was greater than that of the left speaker. Suffice to say the sweet spot was far to the left. These are easy fixes which we were going to tackle on our next visit back. I didn't get a chance to verify the upper module settings but will also do that on our next trip back
 

Alrainbow

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Dec 12, 2013
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I love the massive effort on all involved
I think Ron is very gifted man on audio observations he nailed it
he can portray his thoughts for myself to understand clearly
he does need to talk a bit slower I keep having to rewind to catch it all lol
thats a private joke
it’s tough to post about mostly likely near a million in audio jewelry and not hurt some

I also feel yes venders can offend at times but I doubt any mean harm to audio
after all they most Likly know there products best and I’m no sure anyone of us would sit back and say nothing
great work ron and company
 

bonzo75

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he does need to talk a bit slower I keep having to rewind to catch it all lol

You also need to type a bit slower so we can catch it all
 
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Alrainbow

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You also need to type a bit slower so we can catch it all
My posting skills run much deeper than speed lol.
you met me and still read my shit
ill bet you scratch your head plenty
 

marty

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There were problems with the setup that Im sure all who were there would agree.

Unless the Wilson ratio has changed wherein distance from tweeter to ear divided by distance from tweeter to tweeter should be from 1.0- 1.25, Patrick's ratio put his sitting position IMO too far back with a ratio of 1.32. Also there was a very obvious shift of the soundstage to the far left. Looking at his right speaker the toe in was greater than that of the left speaker. Suffice to say the sweet spot was far to the left. These are easy fixes which we were going to tackle on our next visit back. I didn't get a chance to verify the upper module settings but will also do that on our next trip back
I think the information above is not quite accurate. To begin, Wilson's measurements are not based on ear to tweeter distance, but rather ear to the base of the speaker as shown in this diagram from the manual (p18). This is critical as the tweeter is typically a few inches further posterior than the leading edge of the cabinet. If you use the Wilson nomograms to calculate module placement using ear to tweeter distance instead of ear to speaker base, the set-up will not be correct. Second, I believe the Alexx V manual (p11) states the "ideal" ratio as between 1.1 to 1.25 rather than 1.0-1.25. Slight difference but possibly relevant? Who knows? This ratio serves as guidance and listener preference and room will probably be the best determinants for best sound. Same goes for speaker porting. For me, there was no comparison between front and back (back was preferred) but as Wilson suggests, different size rooms may yield different results. What's really nice is that you have the option of choosing either.

Screen Shot 2022-09-12 at 8.07.42 PM.png

 
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Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
His ratio was 1.32 no matter what. It wasnt 1.1 and it wasn’t 1.25. This plus the greater toe in on the right channel shifting the sweet spot at
least a foot to the left suggests a set up issue. I’m sure we’d all agree
 

marty

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This plus the greater toe in on the right channel shifting the sweet spot at least a foot to the left suggests a set up issue. I’m sure we’d all agree
Probably. One would hope the dealer would not have set them up with different toe-in on each side. If so, it suggests that what might be needed is a new pair of glasses and not a tape measure.
 

Kingrex

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I came to look and see where people take on DAC were at. Instead I found a Wilson speaker setup thread?
 

Gjo

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Does the possibility of a suboptimal speaker set-up affect the validity of the DAC audition impressions?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Does the possibility of a suboptimal speaker set-up affect the validity of the DAC audition impressions?
I dont think so inasmuch as ALL dac’s were listened to through the same speaker set up
 

bryans

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Does the possibility of a suboptimal speaker set-up affect the validity of the DAC audition impressions?
Very interesting question. I have to think that if I have my system setup a certain way and someone comes over to my house and tells me it is wrong. Do I even care what they say? Do I go and change things around? I would hope the speakers where setup the way he wanted them. Now this isn't to say they can't be changed.
 
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Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Maybe suboptimal speakers. Am I the only one thinking that setup needs Wilson Chronosonic XVXs?
Don’t underestimate the Alexx V. It’s quite a speaker. The XVX is too much speaker for Pat’s room IMHO
 
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PeterA

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Ron, did you make any videos of these DAC comparisons with your new video equipment and microphones?
 

Ron Resnick

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Ron, did you make any videos of these DAC comparisons with your new video equipment and microphones?

No. I can listen carefully to tracks and DACs. I can record video and audio, and focus on the recording. But I cannot do both.
 
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microstrip

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I dont think so inasmuch as ALL dac’s were listened to through the same speaker set up

Probably. But I am a little astonished that someone comparing such fine DACs did not notice such strong problems in setup. In my experience with large Wilsons the points you refer can make them sound miserable. When I had the XLF's on the castors, I remember that one day I inadvertently pushed one of them when reaching their back to changing the speaker cables. This day two good friends come to listen but the sound was very poor, I was feeling very bad. The old speaker cables come in service, but still a mess. Fortunately at some point we noticed the assymetry, moved the speaker in position and everything soinded great since that moment.
 
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Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Probably. But I am a little astonished that someone comparing such fine DACs did not notice such strong problems in setup. In my experience with large Wilsons the points you refer can make them sound miserable. When I had the XLF's on the castors, I remember that one day I inadvertently pushed one of them when reaching their back to changing the speaker cables. This day two good friends come to listen but the sound was very poor, I was feeling very bad. The old speaker cables come in service, but still a mess. Fortunately at some point we noticed the assymetry, moved the speaker in position and everything soinded great since that moment.
Thats what we are going to do at Patrick's room when we visit again
 

Willgolf

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It took me two hours to read this whole thread. For the most part, it was very very informative. I am jealous that you have the ears to be able to define the sounds of each DAC and their characteristics at different time periods. When you are in the upper range of systems, I find it hard to differentiate the sound quality. I have been on a cable mission including power cords, RCA, USB, and SPDIF cables for the last month. I am switching cables and playing the same songs over and over again to listen for differences. It is hard! My hats off to PK and his journey! I rely on WBF members in helping me make sound decisions. Thank You!
 

chuck

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Don’t underestimate the Alexx V. It’s quite a speaker. The XVX is too much speaker for Pat’s room IMHO
I have heard both and the AlexxV is very good but IMHO not in the same league as the XVX, particularly with the 3060 (heard that combo at JS Audio).
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I have heard both and the AlexxV is very good but IMHO not in the same league as the XVX, particularly with the 3060 (heard that combo at JS Audio).
they shouldn't be in the same league, period. The XVX is too big for his room. There's nothing wrong with the Alexx V
 
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