And as a owner of some fine tape machines. I know what I hear and I hear it everyday. Someday people will understand what really has a profound effect on the audio signal. Until then business as usual. Enjoy
Visit to Alma Music and Audio
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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And as a owner of some fine tape machines. I know what I hear and I hear it everyday. Someday people will understand what really has a profound effect on the audio signal. Until then business as usual. Enjoy
Ron,
Thank you very much for taking the time and coming along with Keith on his visit!
It's very rewarding for us when we are visited by experienced audiophiles, who end up "getting" what we're trying to do here! This is a store, yeah, but it's also examples of what we like and enjoy in high-end audio.
If you look back, I was one of the first on this forum to champion MSB, back in the DAC IV days, having moved on from dCS. Which each successive generation, I knew I had made the right decision, and when I finally "jumped sides" to become a retailer, that sort of coincided with the new platform/products (SELECT, etc.). The SELECT was, and still is, one of the most groundbreaking products I've ever heard. The gap between it and other DAC is such that I don't see anything even remotely close to it. Back in the DAC IV/V days, I've heard a lot of other DACs, and you could make the case for who was best. At this point in time, with the SELECT, it's not even a contest.
Perhaps in a new visit to Mike's you'd be able to slot some time with the SELECT, otherwise, I can arrange for a listening session right here in So Cal, either here, or in one of my client's.
I'll try now to answer each question raised on the thread separately...
cheers,
alex
Thank you very much for taking the time and coming along with Keith on his visit!
It's very rewarding for us when we are visited by experienced audiophiles, who end up "getting" what we're trying to do here! This is a store, yeah, but it's also examples of what we like and enjoy in high-end audio.
If you look back, I was one of the first on this forum to champion MSB, back in the DAC IV days, having moved on from dCS. Which each successive generation, I knew I had made the right decision, and when I finally "jumped sides" to become a retailer, that sort of coincided with the new platform/products (SELECT, etc.). The SELECT was, and still is, one of the most groundbreaking products I've ever heard. The gap between it and other DAC is such that I don't see anything even remotely close to it. Back in the DAC IV/V days, I've heard a lot of other DACs, and you could make the case for who was best. At this point in time, with the SELECT, it's not even a contest.
Perhaps in a new visit to Mike's you'd be able to slot some time with the SELECT, otherwise, I can arrange for a listening session right here in So Cal, either here, or in one of my client's.
I'll try now to answer each question raised on the thread separately...
cheers,
alex
Nice read Ron and glad you're warming to digital slowly
I didn't see the SGM2015 in the pic and wondered if the narrowing of digital and analogue could be further improved if the SGM had been in place. I also think you'd get a more 'in the room' analogue feel with some nice horns , but hey!, Im biased.
Wish you well and these visits are my favourite posts on WBF.
Blue58
ps. Neil Young always sounds like someones squeezing his balls, LOL
We were using a standard Innuos Zenith, via MSB Renderer input. Moved away from USB solutions, but I'm still curious to see how the Innuos Statement, that we're receiving sometime this month, improves things in such scenario.
More than one
But recently the buzz has been such that we're getting clients with SOTA analog that were never interested in digital, or just had a cheapo CD player "just because". They're looking to up their digital game, but don't want to get into that ol' "DAC of the month" thing. The MSBs fit those folks like a glove, the SELECT in particular.
I'll need some more time with the Bergmann Galder, as I just got back to the store last week. But my initial reaction was extremely favorable, and so were our long time client's, who have heard a lot of the stuff that we've had over the years. I'm more familiar with the "baby" of the line, the Magne. It's extremely quiet and precise, like an instrument. In comparison with the Technics SP-10R, I thought the Magne lacked a bit of weight, but the Galder does not. It's fast, punchy, weighty.
I don't like comparing digital to analog, it's always a losing game. Unless someone really wants to ditch one for the other, the point is quite moot. I've always preached for coexistence.
Like any test, it can be skewed to favor this side or the other. It's just a matter of using the wrong source material, with the wrong provenance... Let's take the example of Ron's Neil Young LP. I assume he brought a standard US issue, from sometime in the 70s.
All the digital listening was done on the $20k MSB Premier.
First, we played the Tidal stream, and it was OK, but the piano sounded wrong, like a toy piano. I assumed that was a crappy ol' 70s rock recording, and left it at that. But then we did the LP on the Bergmann. The voice popped right out, clearer, sharper, and the piano sounded...like a piano! Imagine that!
Upon hearing that, and realizing that we had played the Tidal digital before, I located the hi-res digital version of the same album, that I have on my server, and that I know was properly transferred and mastered for hi-res by Neil Young himself.
So, queue the hi-res... And the gap closes significantly! The voice has pop, the piano is nice and full, like a piano...
All that on a $20k DAC that's nowhere close to a SELECT. Would the hi-res beat the vinyl on a SELECT? Who knows? Who cares?
For completeness' sake, the set up was
Bergmann Galder Turntable
Bergmann Odin Tonearm
Air Tight Opus 1 cart
D'Agostino Momentum phono
Audio Research REF 10 preamp
Audio Research REF 160M monos
Kubala-Sosna cabling (Realization/Sensation lines)
Christian,
If this baby is in your short list, I think it'd be a great addition to your stellar setup. The different inputs and EQ curves will be fun for you, no doubt. The three boxes helped with the noise, since the "dirty bits" can be placed far away from the system. And that part that looks like a stand, isn't
It's actually part of the supply.As for the sound, well, it's a D'Agostino. It oozes energy and drive. I like the adjustable gain, as a way to fine tune the phono to your speakers/overall system gain. On YG we fluctuate between +4 and +6, on Wilson we keep it at 0 to +2. See Jacob Heilbrunn's review of the Momentum pieces, he describes them pretty well I think, better than I ever could, for sure
cheers,
alex
Subscribing to such a statement will depend on how you hear music in general, and unamplified live music in particular. Not everyone perceives things the same.
Having said that, I am a digifile, yet I have great admiration for fine analog.
There’s a old term of art in the law...False in one False in all. But at this level of reproduction it’s the exact opposite. Not only is time and space conveyed exactly, the lack of compression and congestion gives the illusion of being at the microphone. Everything is revealed. Digital has no mechanics to deal with unlike a studio deck or turntable. Just the audio signal which can be easily dealt with if you understand what effects it negatively which I have talked about for years ad nauseum
Of course, as you already seem to imply, this is more a matter of mastering rather than format. Also in the 16/44.1 CD format (as in Tidal stream) you can hear great, convincing sounding piano if the mastering is up to par.
Christian,
If this baby is in your short list, I think it'd be a great addition to your stellar setup. The different inputs and EQ curves will be fun for you, no doubt. The three boxes helped with the noise, since the "dirty bits" can be placed far away from the system. And that part that looks like a stand, isn't
As for the sound, well, it's a D'Agostino. It oozes energy and drive. I like the adjustable gain, as a way to fine tune the phono to your speakers/overall system gain. On YG we fluctuate between +4 and +6, on Wilson we keep it at 0 to +2. See Jacob Heilbrunn's review of the Momentum pieces, he describes them pretty well I think, better than I ever could, for sure
cheers,
alex
Thanks for that info Alex. If I end up wanting to buy, it will be through your dealership...
Of course 16/44 can do convincing piano, that's not what I said. I described that particular part of the listening session because it exemplifies how gains can be had from things other than pure hardware, even though we WERE comparing different pieces of hardware (two DACs), and Ron, for his own reference, brought the LP in.
What drove me to try a different version of that song, which happened to be hi-res, was Tidal, not 16/44. Tidal sounds fine for the most part, but I've found the lack of information regarding provenance problematic, specially when you're trying to do critical listening and comparisons. Because of that, I don't use Tidal for that purpose anymore, unless requested. If I like a track/album Tidal enough, I purchase, rip it, and use that instead. Many times over I've obtained clearly better results than just streaming the standard (non-MQA) Tidal version.
Thank you for taking the time to respond Asiufy. The MSB renderer input must be truly special and so please keep us all posted on your potential success with the new Innuos Statement.
cheers
Blue58
Even though I LOVE the Monarchy Audio DACs (both M24 and NM24) I would not rate them above good analog...they have not surpassed analog...and that is from someone who has been listening to the M24 since the first year it came out and had friends with the NM24, modded and unmodded who bought it because they heard it at my place.
The Kassandra DAC is another story...it is very close to top analog in most important ways and better in every way to my beloved Monarchy...
You hit a nerve with Micro when you mentioned DCS as sounding "digital". It does to my ears as well but he will just argue that you haven't heard it when the whole system is built in support of it or some other claim. Most of the people I know who had DCS digital moved away from that sound.
I would argue that if you want to hear digital that is even LESS digital sounding than MSB you have to look at something like Aries Cerat or Lampizator...or even an inexpensive Monarchy Audio NM24 dac...which might not have quite hte resolution (it won't be nearly as far behind as you think) but it will have the holography, tone and dynamics closer to the good analog you love.
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