Visit to Bending Wave USA--Gobel and CH Precision---state of the art

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#61
Dear Morris
The driver is not the same as the Manger in fact it is quite different in every way and is patented by Oliver. I don't know why think anyone really cares about your opinion particularly about something you did not hear. The system Mike heard is in my showroom in Florida. Your opinion about something that you truly don't seem to know anything about and you did not experience in my opinion has value how?. I have tried to be a gentleman and I would never make comments about your gear which I have never seen nor ever heard and if you are involved I certainly don't plan on taking interest on since any company that would have you representing them certainly needs to reassess their choice.
Your attempt to hijack a thread and to attempt to make your self an expert is truly self serving and classless.
I hope the other readers see you as you are a blowhard with an agenda
Merry Christmas!
 
Oct 15, 2010
131
5
18
Kidneystone-on-Trent
#62
I hope the other readers see you as you are a blowhard with an agenda.
Maybe that's what you hope, but as one of the "other readers," seems to me that you're the blowhard with an agenda.

What about the following statement did you not understand?...

"I have not been impressed at all with the bending wave Goebels but the Divin was quite good."

It's plain as day that he has, in fact, heard Goebel's products. He liked one, didn't like the other. He has an opinion based on audition(s) and is perfectly within his rights to express it.

Everything else is baggage you bring to the party.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
2,616
151
63
Switzerland
#64
Dear Morris
The driver is not the same as the Manger in fact it is quite different in every way and is patented by Oliver. I don't know why think anyone really cares about your opinion particularly about something you did not hear. The system Mike heard is in my showroom in Florida. Your opinion about something that you truly don't seem to know anything about and you did not experience in my opinion has value how?. I have tried to be a gentleman and I would never make comments about your gear which I have never seen nor ever heard and if you are involved I certainly don't plan on taking interest on since any company that would have you representing them certainly needs to reassess their choice.
Your attempt to hijack a thread and to attempt to make your self an expert is truly self serving and classless.
I hope the other readers see you as you are a blowhard with an agenda
Merry Christmas!
I thought I made it clear I have heard both types of Goebel speakers with CH electronics ...so while I have not heard YOUR setup I have heard a setup with the combination of gear in question . I would be surprised if you had heard my gear in the US. and since you say you haven’t ...well mighty big of you not to comment

I don’t think you should use the word gentleman and blowhard in the same post...I may be a lot of things but blowhard is not one of them and a gentleman you appear not to be...rather condescending would fit though I think .

I tried to hijack a thread, really? By commenting about speakers that are on topic? Funny idea you have about what constitutes a hijack.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
2,616
151
63
Switzerland
#65

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#66
Hi guys

Merry Christmas to you all. As I stated yesterday this is IMO an interesting thread and since my admonitions yesterday there continue to be personal and ad hominem attacks. These are not necessary and frankly I'm surprised by many of the comments here and from whence they come.

Can we please get this thread back on track. I'm sure this arguing serves no function except to escalate Everyone should know better.

Let's all enjoy the day
 

RCottin

New Member
Oct 21, 2017
18
6
3
#67
Elliot, has anyone tried high power, push-pull tube amplifiers (e.g., VAC 450s, VTL Siegfrieds, ARC 750s) on these speakers?[/QUOTE

I just sold my ARC Ref 750 SE’s, before the Aeon arrived, so I could not try them together. But from my experience with them and other speakers, I have no doubt the 750 SE would drive the Aeons without problem. In fact I think that it may be a good match.
 

wisnon

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2011
2,573
54
48
#68
FYI...extracted from my orig post last year:
Similar to Manger bending wave tech. One uses soft and the other hard material. Daniela Manger gave me a brief overview last year and the Goebel gentleman did a follow up explanation on WBF last Nov.

They are more full range than even my big Heil driver ( req response only 650hz up to 23K, while the Manger does 80hz to 31K) but the Heil driver is faster, with its air velocity transformer function. Needless to say, I prefer the Heil to Manger (dipole vs monopole). Dont know the Goebel, so cant comment.
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#70
https://www.bendingwaveusa.com/technology/
The Bending Wave Oliver patented is described here and it is not a dipole, or a push pull driver of any kind. It is in the details that separates it from others and like many things in life it is not the same only shares a similar name.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
2,616
151
63
Switzerland
#71

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#72
That's not what it says . It says that it damps the signal at 4000 in the rear. However the signal travels along the BW driver in phase ac cross its all in phase. It does not have an in phase and out of phase signal as in a dipole
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
2,616
151
63
Switzerland
#73
That's not what it says . It says that it damps the signal at 4000 in the rear. However the signal travels along the BW driver in phase ac cross its all in phase. It does not have an in phase and out of phase signal as in a dipole
It says backside dispersion reaches up to 4kHz... sounds an awful lot like there is a back wave that is damped above 4khz. If that is true then indeed it is dipolar up to 4khz. A bending wave must radiate both forwards and backwards, that’s physics. What you do with the backwave determines if the output is dipolar or not. It looks like there is indeed rear wave output with this driver. Is there a box behind this driver? It doesn’t look like it so then it must radiate rearward out of phase from the front...OR there is another driver on the backside wired out of phase to give a Bipolar response...it seems at least there is some damping to tailor the back wave response.
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#74
It is not a push pull driver , there is no back wave. The entire signal is in phase. The driver does not move in that way.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
2,616
151
63
Switzerland
#75
It is not a push pull driver , there is no back wave. The entire signal is in phase. The driver does not move in that way.
Obviously it’s not push/pull I never suggested it was. However, when a flat sheet of some material bends it will radiate sound forwards and backwards and these will be out of phase. The propagating wave goes both positive and negative directions (ie. In and out). Unless you damp the back wave it will have dipolar radiation.
 
Likes: audio.bill

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#76
That is not how it was explained to me so if you need further details you will have to contact Oliver who designed it.
Happy New Year
 

Oliver Göbel

Industry Expert
Oct 9, 2017
15
5
3
Munich
www.goebel-highend.de
#77
Hello all together,

Firstly I want to thank you all for your interest in our products, the technologies behind them and for your time listening and discussing about our products here in this forum.

Just a quick note to one of your questions:
Of course below the coincidence frequency, one single bending wave has a direct phase correlation between the front and the back of the membrane.

But with our world wide unique bending stiff bending wave technology, we do it differently:

Our bending stiff bending wave loudspeakers producing sound mainly above the so called coincidence frequency. That is the frequency where the phase velocity on the membrane and in air is the same. Also above this coincidence frequency the phase velocity on the membrane is rising as higher the frequency will get.

That means, waves are actuated (not only on one point) and are running over the surface of the membrane faster than in air. Also these waves are then guided and damped on several points and through several devices.
In sum, this creates a sound dispersion which has no real phase relation between front and back radiation (No problems with arising comb filters from loudspeaker to the back wall), as well as results in a very equal, wide band, phase coherent and wide dispersion to the front.


For all that are interested. Our distributor for USA - Bending Wave USA - will have their grand opening of their new facility and showroom on Jan 26 to 27. I will also join this event and will be very happy to personally talk, discuss and demonstrate you all our products.
For further infos, please get in contact with Bending Wave USA.

In the meantime I want to wish all of you a happy New Year with health, happiness and a lot of good music.


All the best,
Oliver
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#78
Thank you Oliver and Happy New Year to you and your family. See you in a few weeks!
I know what it does but can never explain it the way you do LOL.
I believe you will be thrilled at the sound we have here.
Peace
 
Likes: GMKF
Jan 11, 2019
2
3
3
60
#79
Hi all,

like Mike who started this thread, I have loved CH for quite some time. Unfortunately my budget did not extend to the mono version, just as well since I do not have a separate music room.

Elliot, I would love listen to your system but doubt I will be stateside any time soon. Could I request a copy of your play list ? PM sent.
 

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