Visit to Bending Wave USA--Gobel and CH Precision---state of the art

Aug 31, 2014
259
18
18
France
#24
No I went from L1 stereo to L1 mono with two X-1.
I also wanted to know why you diden't purchase M1 monos and chose to have L1 monos and C1.1 monos instead ?
Is it that you don't need the power of M1 monos for your Göbel speakers ?
Also how big of a difference is there between L1+X1 vs L1 monos ?
Thanks.:)
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#25
I have heard the speakers bi amp with two M1, not M1.1 since it did not exist at that time. I have heard the Aeon's with an L1 and C1 stereo pieces. I decided to try to max out the sound at RMAF and go all mono. I think that there is a bigger difference to my ears with improving the source and going to the C1.1 mono. IMO this is an incredible step and again to me the finest sound that I have been able to get from digital. I decided to do the same thing with the preamp and get the front end of my system as far down the road as I can. When one goes to the X-1's and mono in CH there is such a difference in the whole feel and texture to the music. It is quiet and fast and dynamic in a way that I have not been able to achieve before. I feel that bi-amping the speakers makes a difference but again in my opinion the other steps far out weigh it. I have a lot of experience with single amping versus bi-amping in my life. It was because of this that I chose the path I did. I am a proponent of having the best source possible! If you don't have that the rest of the chain is working at a disadvantage. I guess that is the old school in me but it is a foundation to my audio beliefs. You don't get great sound without a great source!!! The Gobel's don't need to be bi-amped , not do they need to have a mono to each side. Would it be better if I did? Perhaps but I have a my plan and of course my budget LOL.
I think if you were to experience what I have now in my room your questions would be answered.
By the way if you are going to make a major investment in a system you should hear this!
 
Likes: Thieliste

WDW

Member
May 25, 2011
51
2
8
BC, Canada
#26
Hello Eliot,
Why not simply post the playlist for all to see?
Best,
Warren
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#27
Dear Warren,
I am working on something @www.bendingwaveusa.com you will see in the next month or so that you might find interesting stay tuned for further details.
 

RCottin

New Member
Oct 21, 2017
18
6
3
#28
Hi Elliot,
Now that my new Goebel Aeon speakers have been dialed into my room, and the system has settled down, I am very glad to tell you that these speakers have exeeded all my expectations, by a lot. For the benefit of other readers here, my current system comprises a TW Acustic Black Knight table, two TW arms, Kuzma 4Point 9, Graham Elite, Transfiguration Proteus D, Ortofon Century MC, Lyra Atlas and Miyajima Madame Snakewood, SRA Base, CH P1, L1 and 2x M1 (bi-amping the speakers) on SRA rack and bases, all Goebel interconnects and now Goebel Aeon speakers. Room is a library that measures 29´x16´ with slanted wood ceiling that starts on the system end 9´and 27´on the other end, concrete walls with different finishes (wood, library, wallpaper), mostly reflective with beautiful acoustics. Previous speakers were Nola Baby Grand Gold 2 and Nola Grand Reference Gold 2. My first reaction when setting up the speakers was of a nice surprise, as çI placed them near where I though should be, and they sounded great there, from there kept dialing in and they kept improving, but never sounding bad, simply getting better. I could have left them in the first spot and still would be the best speaker I ever heard, and from there went up a lot. The bass in this speakers is just amazing, deep, powerful, perfectly defined in every note, really fast and cero color or overhang. The resolution of the bending wave component is perfect, voices have no trace of box or chest sound, impact, dynamics, image, are all there in full, very fast and with proper warmth. The only problem I can see with this speakers is not for me, but for you, as they can easily be my last speaker for a long while. They are that good.
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#29
I am thrilled to hear that you are loving the speakers and that you are getting the kind of result in your room that makes you say the things you did.
I love the speakers and that is why I decided to import them. The responses we have gotten from those who have actually listened to them properly set up in a good room has been overwhelming in their praise. The speakers are truly special and from your words I see you feel the same. I know that with all the speakers you had before you never were totally blown away. I am glad that finally you have found what brings you musical happiness. Have a great holiday season and enjoy them!
 
Oct 1, 2014
47
3
8
#30
The resolution of the bending wave component is perfect, voices have no trace of box or chest sound, impact, dynamics, image, are all there in full, very fast and with proper warmth.
Would you please expand on this - no trace of chest sound - a trained vocalist uses their diaphragm to assist with the reproduction of each & every note & as such is often captured with close miked recordings - it is an essential part of music IMHO.

I am hoping Elliot G as the importer would clarify 'cause me thinks this may have been "lost in translation".
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#31
I certainly do not want to speak for Ricardo hes quite able to do that for himself. Hes an articulate and successful man. His first language is Spanish however and I believe he is describing the sound of a drivers in an box or some sort of enclosure that would add a coloration to the sound of voices. I have not spoken to Ricardo so perhaps when he has time he can explain what he is describing himself. I do know he was traveling this week. He does attend a lot of live music and one of his children is musician.
The bending wave driver which runs full range from 160hz to 30000 hz is supported in an open manner and has no enclosure . Its is open to both the front and rear in a aluminum frame. It is not a push /pull driver, electrostatic , ribbon . or planar type device and does not work like they do. The sound travels across the bending wave like sound travels on a musical instrument and is faster on the driver than in air. It does not exhibit the phase issues and coloration that one hears from other devices. My way of describing this is "PURE". I don't really know what else I can say but if you are interested please visit us to hear it or stop buy when we are at one of the shows. I am not sure yet what we will be displaying at Axpona 2019 or RMAF 2019 yet but we will certainly let you know if either works for you.
 
Oct 1, 2014
47
3
8
#32
I certainly do not want to speak for Ricardo hes quite able to do that for himself.
That was not my intention & look forward to a response from Ricardo. I deduced he was an ESL person - hence my "lost in translation" observation.

Thanks for your reply. A second opinion is what I sought - you have provided same. I am a muso - as was my wife (deceased) & 2 of my 3 children - I attend those concerts that interest me. I know what the Gobel's are & understand the principles behind it. Their's is a very good web site that provides detailed info - unlike many others in the HiFi world (hope you reading this Viva).
Fascinated with the side dispersion at 180 degrees that resides in the critical mid range - an area where most speaker manufacturers commit the cardinal sin of crossovers to often disparate cones in the 300 - 3500 range - sacre bleu !!!
Appreciate the offer to attend - hopefully the opportunity will arise - but as I live in the Land of Oz it is somewhat more challenging go & have a listen. I can assure you that when I do get to the good ol' US of A - I will let you know.
Still stunned that the Gobel flagship speaker does not use the very technology that gives the company its sustainable marketing (& premium pricing) edge - defies business & marketing logic.
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 6, 2013
359
5
18
#33
Hi Elliot,
Now that my new Goebel Aeon speakers have been dialed into my room, and the system has settled down, I am very glad to tell you that these speakers have exeeded all my expectations, by a lot. For the benefit of other readers here, my current system comprises a TW Acustic Black Knight table, two TW arms, Kuzma 4Point 9, Graham Elite, Transfiguration Proteus D, Ortofon Century MC, Lyra Atlas and Miyajima Madame Snakewood, SRA Base, CH P1, L1 and 2x M1 (bi-amping the speakers) on SRA rack and bases, all Goebel interconnects and now Goebel Aeon speakers. Room is a library that measures 29´x16´ with slanted wood ceiling that starts on the system end 9´and 27´on the other end, concrete walls with different finishes (wood, library, wallpaper), mostly reflective with beautiful acoustics. Previous speakers were Nola Baby Grand Gold 2 and Nola Grand Reference Gold 2. My first reaction when setting up the speakers was of a nice surprise, as çI placed them near where I though should be, and they sounded great there, from there kept dialing in and they kept improving, but never sounding bad, simply getting better. I could have left them in the first spot and still would be the best speaker I ever heard, and from there went up a lot. The bass in this speakers is just amazing, deep, powerful, perfectly defined in every note, really fast and cero color or overhang. The resolution of the bending wave component is perfect, voices have no trace of box or chest sound, impact, dynamics, image, are all there in full, very fast and with proper warmth. The only problem I can see with this speakers is not for me, but for you, as they can easily be my last speaker for a long while. They are that good.
Is the speaker Reference or Fine?
 

RCottin

New Member
Oct 21, 2017
18
6
3
#34
Would you please expand on this - no trace of chest sound - a trained vocalist uses their diaphragm to assist with the reproduction of each & every note & as such is often captured with close miked recordings - it is an essential part of music IMHO.

I am hoping Elliot G as the importer would clarify 'cause me thinks this may have been "lost in translation".
Hi. Fair point. Wrong choice of words. What I was trying to say was lack of “chestiness” (hope is the right word), meaning that the voice is congested, with an unatural accent in the low registers. Voice here is really natural with no added or substracted warmth or body. One good thing I have noticed is that everything tends to sound well; good recordings sounds good and bad recordings not so well, but not offensive. I stopped skipping records because they may sound bad.
 
Oct 1, 2014
47
3
8
#35
Hi. Fair point. Wrong choice of words. What I was trying to say was lack of “chestiness” (hope is the right word), meaning that the voice is congested, with an unatural accent in the low registers.
Hola senor Ricardo - como estas

Thank you for the clarification - I have a very good Spanish speaking friend & she uses descriptions that sometimes make me smile - once I work out what she actually means. She is one of the most beautiful people I have ever met - I am referring to inner beauty - though she is also physically attractive.

My friend & I use voice & acoustic instruments to determine the quality of HiFi equipment or otherwise - the breath between notes - the huskiness of the voice - using the diaphragm & chest in their vocal rendition - the strings on an acoustic guitar - violin - piano. He is more orchestral - his son plays in a quality orchestra - I am more vocal & acoustic guitar. He builds DACS based on a TDA 1541 chip - they are VERY good & he will soon starting optimising it using an an I2S board for 192 HZ - fun times ahead. My sincere thanks to the smartest guy I know of using TDA 1541 chips - Pedja Rogic.

Hope to get to Spain in the not too distant future - just starting to plan - in my head - a 3 week European HiFi trip culminating in the Munich Hi End show - yeah now that sounds like a GREAT idea not 2019 though - 2020 will work - would relish the opportunity to listen to your system - should our timetables work out.

Feliz Navidad

Rob
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#36
That was not my intention & look forward to a response from Ricardo. I deduced he was an ESL person - hence my "lost in translation" observation.

Thanks for your reply. A second opinion is what I sought - you have provided same. I am a muso - as was my wife (deceased) & 2 of my 3 children - I attend those concerts that interest me. I know what the Gobel's are & understand the principles behind it. Their's is a very good web site that provides detailed info - unlike many others in the HiFi world (hope you reading this Viva).
Fascinated with the side dispersion at 180 degrees that resides in the critical mid range - an area where most speaker manufacturers commit the cardinal sin of crossovers to often disparate cones in the 300 - 3500 range - sacre bleu !!!
Appreciate the offer to attend - hopefully the opportunity will arise - but as I live in the Land of Oz it is somewhat more challenging go & have a listen. I can assure you that when I do get to the good ol' US of A - I will let you know.
Still stunned that the Gobel flagship speaker does not use the very technology that gives the company its sustainable marketing (& premium pricing) edge - defies business & marketing logic.
That is not exactly correct. The Divin series of speakers and I assume you are discussing the Majestic, which Oliver used the term flagship, which he was saying is the flagship of that series, uses a lot of the technology and knowledge that he got from the bending wave driver to accomplish a different task as well as to be a sonic representative of the company. The Divin series of speakers ere very efficient, 95db, and can be used with a wider variety of amplifiers the the Epoque Aeon speakers. This is not a determinate of quality but rather an opportunity for those who prefer that type of amplification to still own and enjoy a Gobel product.
 

RCottin

New Member
Oct 21, 2017
18
6
3
#38
#
Hola senor Ricardo - como estas

Thank you for the clarification - I have a very good Spanish speaking friend & she uses descriptions that sometimes make me smile - once I work out what she actually means. She is one of the most beautiful people I have ever met - I am referring to inner beauty - though she is also physically attractive.

My friend & I use voice & acoustic instruments to determine the quality of HiFi equipment or otherwise - the breath between notes - the huskiness of the voice - using the diaphragm & chest in their vocal rendition - the strings on an acoustic guitar - violin - piano. He is more orchestral - his son plays in a quality orchestra - I am more vocal & acoustic guitar. He builds DACS based on a TDA 1541 chip - they are VERY good & he will soon starting optimising it using an an I2S board for 192 HZ - fun times ahead. My sincere thanks to the smartest guy I know of using TDA 1541 chips - Pedja Rogic.

Hope to get to Spain in the not too distant future - just starting to plan - in my head - a 3 week European HiFi trip culminating in the Munich Hi End show - yeah now that sounds like a GREAT idea not 2019 though - 2020 will work - would relish the opportunity to listen to your system - should our timetables work out.

Feliz Navidad

Rob[/QUOT
Thank you for your kind words. I also use live instruments as reference, as in my house my son plays several instruments and my daughter piano. This speakers come as close as I have ever heard to convey the sound of the Steinway piano or the acoustic guitars at home.
 
Likes: Rob181
Oct 1, 2014
47
3
8
#39
That is not exactly correct. The Divin series of speakers and I assume you are discussing the Majestic, which Oliver used the term flagship, which he was saying is the flagship of that series, uses a lot of the technology and knowledge that he got from the bending wave driver to accomplish a different task as well as to be a sonic representative of the company. The Divin series of speakers ere very efficient, 95db, and can be used with a wider variety of amplifiers the the Epoque Aeon speakers. This is not a determinate of quality but rather an opportunity for those who prefer that type of amplification to still own and enjoy a Gobel product.
I don't doubt the veracity of your of your comments - but I would have set up had a separate entity for the either Divin series or the bending wave series - similar to what Michael Borresen did with ANZUS or AAVIK. When you have a sustainable business/marketing advantage that delivers a significant price premium - the last thing you want to do is dilute that advantage - especially by your own hand.
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
785
70
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#40
I don't doubt the veracity of your of your comments - but I would have set up had a separate entity for the either Divin series or the bending wave series - similar to what Michael Borresen did with ANZUS or AAVIK. When you have a sustainable business/marketing advantage that delivers a significant price premium - the last thing you want to do is dilute that advantage - especially by your own hand.
It was not my decision however promoting different brand names is not a business model that I support or believe is the best way to grow a company. I think Oliver believes the same thing. Gobel makes great speakers and cables and having different choices for different markets and listeners is what they built. I may have my favorite and someone else have a different choice either way its good for the brand.
When you start your company you can choose the path that works the best for you.
Best regards,
Elliot
 

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