VTL Siegfried II - long term report

[Tango]

I don't think the ML3 will show its best with any speakers below 100db...even when Steve says it works superbly with his XLF. I have the ML3 in my system for a year now and it does extraordinary things in my system. There are shortcomings in my system but I don't think they are from the ML3. Some amps might do better in some aspect than the ML3 but those are not ML3's shortcomings. Those are things the ML3 can not do as extraordinary. I can point two aspects out, the precision in locating instruments in symphony and the ability to capture a snap shot like photography of the recording. The CH M1 and probably Mike's Dartz can do those better. You can call coloration or anything as wish but the ML3 fools me with the sense of Live sound more than anything I have heard so far.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I don't think the ML3 will show its best with any speakers below 100db...even when Steve says it works superbly with his XLF. I have the ML3 in my system for a year now and it does extraordinary things in my system. There are shortcomings in my system but I don't think they are from the ML3. Some amps might do better in some aspect than the ML3 but those are not ML3's shortcomings. Those are things the ML3 can not do as extraordinary. I can point two aspects out, the precision in locating instruments in symphony and the ability to capture a snap shot like photography of the recording. The CH M1 and probably Mike's Dartz can do those better. You can call coloration or anything as wish but the ML3 fools me with the sense of Live sound more than anything I have heard so far.

Kind regards,
Tang

when the ML3's are in their design envelope of speaker control in an appropriate space, they do image localization perfectly in their own way. you get more information about the real action of the musical event, but maybe less of that musical thread's outline or exact spot in space, and less outer ambient light, and less macro dynamic scale and authority, compared to other amplifiers....i compared it to.

they are right here doing things.......verses......you are there with them....and that 'there' is more fully defined.

so we should not want the ML3 to be different than it is. it does it's thing perfectly i think. for sure each approach serves various musical genres differently. and neither is all one way at the expense of the other way....but there are strengths of each.

 

[bonzo75]

I don't think the ML3 will show its best with any speakers below 100db...even when Steve says it works superbly with his XLF. I have the ML3 in my system for a year now and it does extraordinary things in my system. There are shortcomings in my system but I don't think they are from the ML3. Some amps might do better in some aspect than the ML3 but those are not ML3's shortcomings. Those are things the ML3 can not do as extraordinary. I can point two aspects out, the precision in locating instruments in symphony and the ability to capture a snap shot like photography of the recording. The CH M1 and probably Mike's Dartz can do those better. You can call coloration or anything as wish but the ML3 fools me with the sense of Live sound more than anything I have heard so far.

Kind regards,
Tang

The surprising thing is why the first statement is not obvious to all. I don't consider such things subjective preferences. They are obvious. Anyone who disagrees can either not hear the obvious (no golden ears required) or are super at being dishonest to themselves in audio. The lucky guys can then purchase anything and pretend it sounds good for their subjective preference

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The surprising thing is why the first statement is not obvious to all. I don't consider such things subjective preferences. They are obvious. Anyone who disagrees can either not hear the obvious (no golden ears required) or are super at being dishonest to themselves in audio. The lucky guys can then purchase anything and pretend it sounds good for their subjective preference

I think the ML3’s are so wonderful at certain things that they blind us to their limitations. We just don’t care or can’t admit that they have limits. The pull of that addictive sound is powerful. I know I’ll always be haunted by it, but cherish it’s place in my memory. Glad I had my fling.

Don’t judge too harshly the lies people tell themselves about their vices. It’s only human.

 

[Tango]

I think the ML3’s are so wonderful at certain things that they blind us to their limitations. We just don’t care or can’t admit that they have limits. The pull of that addictive sound is powerful.

Very much agreed to this. And it is does not just apply to the ML3. Some other equipments also.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[tdotson41]

I have a VTL 7.5 series iii preamp and recently ordered a pair of Vandersteen K?nto speakers. My dilemma is buy a new pair of VTL MB-450 series iii monos or a used pair of Siegfried ii for $28k. My room is 14W x 16L x 8.5H. My concern is the heat of Siegfried‘s. Can anyone speak to the heat for that size room.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Do you have air conditioning?

I own Siegfried IIs (which I've never seen).

If you double the number of output power tubes, I strongly suspect that you approximately double the heat.

If your room has no problem with a total of eight power tubes, I doubt that 16 power tubes would be a material problem.

My prior VTL MB-750s had the same number of output tubes as the Siegfried IIs. So I had 16 output tubes in a dedicated listening room which was 10 feet wide and 16 feet long with a 8.5 foot ceiling.

I hate hot weather and I hate feeling warm. The amplifiers did, indeed, warm up the room, but it was not a problem with air conditioning.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Reading through the thread it reads like a never ending same old story .
Let people just buy what they want , its just a hobby for christsake .
Its not like the world depends on it lol
Who the helll some think they are in the first place to give a verdict on other peoples choices

Its getting boring these audioforums

 

[tdotson41]

Do you have air conditioning?

I own Siegfried IIs (which I've never seen).

If you double the number of output power tubes, I strongly suspect that you approximately double the heat.

If your room has no problem with a total of eight power tubes, I doubt that 16 power tubes would be a material problem.

My prior VTL MB-750s had the same number of output tubes as the Siegfried IIs. So I had 16 output tubes in a dedicated listening room which was 10 feet wide and 16 feet long with a 8.5 foot ceiling.

I hate hot weather and I hate feeling warm. The amplifiers did, indeed, warm up the room, but it was not a problem with air conditioning.

Do you have air conditioning?

I own Siegfried IIs (which I've never seen).

If you double the number of output power tubes, I strongly suspect that you approximately double the heat.

If your room has no problem with a total of eight power tubes, I doubt that 16 power tubes would be a material problem.

My prior VTL MB-750s had the same number of output tubes as the Siegfried IIs. So I had 16 output tubes in a dedicated listening room which was 10 feet wide and 16 feet long with a 8.5 foot ceiling.

I hate hot weather and I hate feeling warm. The amplifiers did, indeed, warm up the room, but it was not a problem with air conditioning.

Unfortunately my as well as most homes in Seattle don’t come with AC. I’m thinking it may be time to invest in one. I would hate to pass on a opportunity to own a pair Siegfried at that price. Thanks as always Ron!

 

[Gregadd]

I don't think it will double. Maybe one our engineers will explain

 

[microstrip]

I have a VTL 7.5 series iii preamp and recently ordered a pair of Vandersteen K?nto speakers. My dilemma is buy a new pair of VTL MB-450 series iii monos or a used pair of Siegfried ii for $28k. My room is 14W x 16L x 8.5H. My concern is the heat of Siegfried‘s. Can anyone speak to the heat for that size room.

I own the Siegfried ii and really like them. They are great amplifiers. I do not have air conditioning and during the hot Summer days - typically July and August - I usually rely on solid state alternatives. My current room has the same width and height as yours , but almost twice as long, the amplifiers are at the front wall, speakers 7 feet from it and I sit 12 feet from the tweeters.

My new listening room being built will have air conditioning - although it is properly insulated, it is a large sunny attic and tubes and sun can be an unpleasant combination.

 

[XV-1]

I have a VTL 7.5 series iii preamp and recently ordered a pair of Vandersteen K?nto speakers. My dilemma is buy a new pair of VTL MB-450 series iii monos or a used pair of Siegfried ii for $28k. My room is 14W x 16L x 8.5H. My concern is the heat of Siegfried‘s. Can anyone speak to the heat for that size room.

personally I would get the Siegfried's as they will sound better than the MB-450's. both will get hot.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I want to share with you my experience with VTL Siegfried II after two and half years of usage. Although Siegfrieds are extremely well designed and executed amps further optimization can elevate their performance.

There is rather common understanding that Gold Lions, which I use, are the best new production KT88,

Hi!

Have you ever tried the KR Audio KT-88s?

 

[Tbzc]

Hi!

Have you ever tried the KR Audio KT-88s?

Hi, Ron.

No, I have not. Too expensive. But in order to optimize sound I have found out that 12at7 tube has quite big impact on overall sound of VTL. More than 12bh7. I have used NOS Mullard. Anyhow, I have sold VTL and use NAT Magma now.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi, Ron.

No, I have not. Too expensive. But in order to optimize sound I have found out that 12at7 tube has quite big impact on overall sound of VTL. More than 12bh7. I have used NOS Mullard. Anyhow, I have sold VTL and use NAT Magma now.

Thank you for your speedy reply!

Which speakers do you use now?

 

[Tbzc]

Thank you for your speedy reply!

Which speakers do you use now?

I have been using with VTL and Nat, Sigma Acoustics Maat speakers.

 

[bonzo75]

Thank you for your speedy reply!

Which speakers do you use now?

i covered his Sigma MAAT with NAT Magma in my report, had discussed it with you. Way superior to the TADs he previously had

 

[microstrip]

Just t report that after having to replace twice a power tube of the VTL Siegfried II today I have replaced the whole set. A twenty minute affair - just pulling the old tubes, putting the new ones is place, switching the amplifiers on and pressing the tube bias / temp reset for 15 seconds to clean the old bias settings.

The old tubes had 2790 hours on them - probably they would have lasted for a couple of hundred hours more - VTL conservatively estimates it at 3000 hours. The amplifier is playing great and my biased mind finds it is surely sounding better with the fresh tubes! I stayed with Gold Lion KT88's, matched and burned in for 100 hours, Electro Harmonix 12BH7 and NOS Mullard 12AT7's - why changing a previously winner combination?

Just to know I checked the old tubes in a tester - although at 90% of the expected life time, I could not separate them from the new ones just by transconductance.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I have not been exposed much to VTL in the past , but the VTL S 400 series 3 / 7.5 definetively have me wondering.

Definitely amplfiers that bring life in the music .
I guesss thats what its all about really in the end

 

[gadawg58]

I have not been exposed much to VTL in the past , but the VTL S 400 series 3 / 7.5 definetively have me wondering.

Definitely amplfiers that bring life in the music .
I guesss thats what its all about really in the end

I’ve been impressed every time I heard VTL! I think they are great sounding amps. Not sure why they aren’t featured more in showrooms as they really make wonderful music!

George