WBF Audiophiles and Music

[tima]

There is a recent thread titled The Music or the Gear that asks you to weigh in on your goal as an Audiophile - is it the music, the gear or both. I doubt few if any will say they are exclusively interested in music or gear but not the other. Many will say something like "gear is necessary to reproducing music" or "the gear serves the music." Few will say "music is a reason to operate the gear" or some such.

Reading through that thread got me thinking about audiophiles and music in terms of WBF world. If we were to go by what we see here at WBF one could easily conclude that the vast majority of interest orients toward equipment and home reproduction. Yes, there is a Music Forum largely consisting of messages about "What I'm Playing", often with album covers, or what passes for album covers from the streaming world. But the Vinyl and DAC forums have more messages. There is a smattering of threads about particular pieces of music mostly focused on what is the best recording. We read countless threads on digital vs analog but there are none on Clapton vs Hendrix, a raging debate in college. There is very little discussion about even the most basic music description words though Karen Sumner tried to generate interest there. Would you know an arpeggio if you heard one? Lot's of people hate some of Bartok's works but few can tell you why. Some will say "Who is Bartok?" What are the instruments in Ellington's orchestra?

Many are of the school that sez: "I don't need to understand it to enjoy it." Music for pleasure seems to be the order of they day - the limit of music appreciation at WBF. I don't say that in a derogatory way -- it is what it is. Given that we don't find much of it here, why do you think audiophiles on WBF are uncomfortable or incapable or disinclined to talk about music?

 

[the sound of Tao]

Analysing music Tim is a lot like talking about sex… sure it’s kinda interesting at times but I’m not sure it’s in the best interest of either music or sex to think too much while doing it. Thinking about either is best saved for afterwards when the feelings have died down.

 

[bonzo75]

Analysing music Tim is a lot like talking about sex… sure it’s kinda interesting at times but I’m not sure it’s in the best interest of either music or sex to think too much while doing it. Thinking about either is best saved for afterwards when the feelings have died down.

which is it that Tim said WBF audiophiles are uncomfortable with or incapable of

 

[tima]

Analysing music Tim is a lot like talking about sex… sure it’s kinda interesting at times but I’m not sure it’s in the best interest of either music or sex to think too much while doing it. Thinking about either is best saved for afterwards when the feelings have died down.

Hmmm ... a clever quip but no one is suggesting analysing music while listening to it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think that understanding, appreciating and analyzing the technical aspects of music is a distinct sub-hobby. One can spend decades involved in and enjoying the hobby, and yet never engage in this particular sub-hobby.

 

[RaChiK]

I see music like a poker game. It is easy to understand poker game, but takes a lifetime to master it. Easy to listen/enjoy a good music, regardless of gears or headphones: almost years of dedicated time, research/ discussions, changing gears, to finally experience any music that makes it come alive in front of you.
Audiophiles are always micromanaging or micro adjusting like editors. Some people become very analytical and blunt with the science/technical aspects and some people find a balance between being analytical and enjoying. To some extent it has to do with so many choices in different equipments that getting a synergy in system (from gears to cables to room) is not a easy task. In the end, every time I change some gears, I make sure that it pleases my ears and heart more than my analytical brain. With that said, humans get bored easily and always looking for the next big/best thing, and so it goes on. So it goes: my ears, my pocket and my desire.

 

[facten]

I may well be an exception amongst members on this site, but aside from being required to take a course in music during high school I have no background to intelligently critique in details or specifics the work of musicians, composers, conductors. I fall into the categories of: liking or disliking music based upon the pleasure I derive from it or not; I don't need to understand it to enjoy it; and, having very generalized opinions on certain musicans. Net, net I am simply grateful to those who have been given the musical talent for sharing it with me and affording me the pleasure of enjoying it.

Okay, now revoke my membership

 

[PeterA]

I may well be an exception amongst members on this site, but aside from being required to take a course in music during high school I have no background to intelligently critique in details or specifics the work of musicians, composers, conductors. I fall into the categories of: liking or disliking music based upon the pleasure I derive from it or not; I don't need to understand it to enjoy it; and, having very generalized opinions on certain musicans. Net, net I am simply grateful to those who have been given the musical talent for sharing it with me and affording me the pleasure of enjoying it.

Okay, now revoke my membership

Facten, I am more like you and can well relate to your post. I do find though, when I read the liner notes at the symphony or know more about the music and the intent, it can have greater meaning to me and often be more enjoyable. I would like to learn more, but it’s a matter of time and priorities.

 

[ddk]

There is a recent thread titled The Music or the Gear that asks you to weigh in on your goal as an Audiophile - is it the music, the gear or both. I doubt few if any will say they are exclusively interested in music or gear but not the other. Many will say something like "gear is necessary to reproducing music" or "the gear serves the music." Few will say "music is a reason to operate the gear" or some such.

Reading through that thread got me thinking about audiophiles and music in terms of WBF world. If we were to go by what we see here at WBF one could easily conclude that the vast majority of interest orients toward equipment and home reproduction. Yes, there is a Music Forum largely consisting of messages about "What I'm Playing", often with album covers, or what passes for album covers from the streaming world. But the Vinyl and DAC forums have more messages. There is a smattering of threads about particular pieces of music mostly focused on what is the best recording. We read countless threads on digital vs analog but there are none on Clapton vs Hendrix, a raging debate in college. There is very little discussion about even the most basic music description words though Karen Sumner tried to generate interest there. Would you know an arpeggio if you heard one? Lot's of people hate some of Bartok's works but few can tell you why. Some will say "Who is Bartok?" What are the instruments in Ellington's orchestra?

Many are of the school that sez: "I don't need to understand it to enjoy it." Music for pleasure seems to be the order of they day - the limit of music appreciation at WBF. I don't say that in a derogatory way -- it is what it is. Given that we don't find much of it here, why do you think audiophiles on WBF are uncomfortable or incapable or disinclined to talk about music?

WBF is a gear centric forum not a music focused one even so some might be interested in the topic. Best way to find out is to start a few threads, I bet depending on the genre you pick and the angle of discussion you’ll find participants here.

david

 

[sbnx]

Interesting topic. Audiophiles can be categorized into many different subgroups, but one subgrouping is those that are or were musicians and those that have never played an instrument or been in a band/choir. I think it would greatly benefit those without a music background to take a music appreciation class (or two). While it is true that you don't have to understand how to read music or play an instrument to appreciate Beethoven, having an understanding of music, how it works and how it is supposed to sound would greatly benefit audiophiles. Especially those who are trying to curate a system to make music in their home.

Sit back and put on a track. It could be a jazz piece like Cantaloupe Island or a piano concerto or something similar. Listen to the music. Don't ask questions about soundstage or spectral balance or any of that stuff. Instead ask: Does this sound like music? Are the musicians playing together? Are they in time? Does the music make sense? Is the music speaking to me? Am I engaged with the music or just listening to sound? I think former musicians are much more in touch with this type of thing. It is so easy to get lost in the maze of gear and forget that all of the piece parts should be working together to communicate the intent of the musicians.

Maybe that would be an interesting pole on WBF: Are you or were you ever a musician?

And Hendrix was clearly better than Clapton.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have no background to intelligently critique in details or specifics the work of musicians, composers, conductors. I fall into the categories of: liking or disliking music based upon the pleasure I derive from it or not; I don't need to understand it to enjoy it; and, having very generalized opinions on certain musicans. Net, net I am simply grateful to those who have been given the musical talent for sharing it with me and affording me the pleasure of enjoying it.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[rando]

I feel safe saying a running update of every album Steve W. listened to would require a massive server memory upgrade. For many retirees and office listeners this is probably a very common circumstance. Fashions and ideas gaining value in their listening might also not be suitable for them to expose here. Beyond this time or sappily affixed to a past one is a safe place to rest that thought.

Analysing music Tim is a lot like talking about sex… sure it’s kinda interesting at times but I’m not sure it’s in the best interest of either music or sex to think too much while doing it. Thinking about either is best saved for afterwards when the feelings have died down.

What is the sound of falling into an all too familiar rhythm?

Or are you positing the exciting bits only happen in those spaces falling between the active parts? Snappy first response regardless.

 

[dminches]

I visit WBF to mostly discuss equipment and other stuff going on in the music equipment industry. I discuss music in other forums which are more homogenous relative to my musical interests.

 

[microstrip]

Interesting topic. Audiophiles can be categorized into many different subgroups, but one subgrouping is those that are or were musicians and those that have never played an instrument or been in a band/choir.

Well, musicians are statistically known to have little interest in high-end audio systems and in our hobby. But the famous existing few are well used by the audio industry marketing.

I think it would greatly benefit those without a music background to take a music appreciation class (or two). While it is true that you don't have to understand how to read music or play an instrument to appreciate Beethoven, having an understanding of music, how it works and how it is supposed to sound would greatly benefit audiophiles. Especially those who are trying to curate a system to make music in their home.

I do not see any reason why a music appreciation class would benefit audiophiles, except for reinforcing their biases.

Sit back and put on a track. It could be a jazz piece like Cantaloupe Island or a piano concerto or something similar. Listen to the music. Don't ask questions about soundstage or spectral balance or any of that stuff. Instead ask: Does this sound like music? Are the musicians playing together? Are they in time? Does the music make sense? Is the music speaking to me? Am I engaged with the music or just listening to sound? I think former musicians are much more in touch with this type of thing. It is so easy to get lost in the maze of gear and forget that all of the piece parts should be working together to communicate the intent of the musicians.

Maybe that would be an interesting pole on WBF: Are you or were you ever a musician?

And Hendrix was clearly better than Clapton.

We will spend an enjoyable time asking all these questions, but how does it help us improving our systems? It is easy to say if a system sounds musical or not to us, but in order to evolute a system with a positive drift you have to analyze it properly.

IMHO musical stuff is great to laudate a system - I do it sometimes - but of little help to tell others how a system really sounds.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Hmmm ... a clever quip but no one is suggesting analysing music while listening to it.

No that’s for sure Tim… I’ve noticed over the years we have many alignments in choices for listening to classical music and performances… I’m sure you wouldn’t deconstruct a Bruno Walter Mahler performance during play any more than I would. If I found myself doing that I’d wonder what was out in my system .

I do read up on classical reviews in music magazines and newspapers to build my discovery of great performances and appreciate the greater background to music. After a lifetime of listening leaning largely into classical and jazz (though as well as many other strains of contemporary music) I still find there’s so much more to learn and understand and the journey is still seemingly in an opening phase for me but most of my discovery is based on listening to the music and discovering what resonates with me most. I do pick up on themes and correlations in performance and music. Allowing instinct to navigate I have realised musically I am more Dionysian than Apollonian.

Analysing what I am drawn to is an occasional part of that but by far it’s mostly about throwing myself into the hands and care of the performers and composers and going along for the ride and realising as best I can as I go. Experiencing the music in a deeply seated way is the alpha and the omega of most all of my listening these days. I rarely listen to my system much any more, mostly just the music. Analysis happens at times but mostly it’s about joining in with the synthesis in recreation and to letting go into union with performance.

 

[facten]

And Hendrix was clearly better than Clapton

Clapton effectively agreed

Extract from rockcelebritiesnet - (Hendrix jamming with Cream)

"It was a great opportunity for Jimi Hendrix, and he definitely wouldn’t ruin it. Hendrix took the stage with Howlin’ Wolf’s ‘Killing Floor,’ and gave a terrific performance from beginning to end. Chas Chandler remembers that Eric Clapton was literally shocked when he heard Hendrix’s guitar playing because he was unbelievably good.

Here is how Chas Chandler remembers this special moment:


“Clapton stood there, and his hands dropped off of the guitar. He lurched off the stage. I thought, ‘Oh God, it’s happening now.’ I went backstage, and he was trying to get a match to a cigarette. I said, ‘Are you alright?’ and he replied, ‘Is he that fucking good?’ He had heard ten bars at the most. Within a week, he had his hair frizzed and would come by our flat anytime that he had a spare moment, to be with Hendrix.”

Later on, in an interview, Eric Clapton described Jimi Hendrix’s performance by saying that although Jimi did just a few of his playing tricks, it was enough for Clapton to be highly impressed. Eric Clapton also stated that his life has never been the same again after seeing Hendrix playing on that stage

Eric Clapton’s words on Hendrix’s performance:

“He played just about every style you could think of, and not in a flashy way. I mean, he did a few of his tricks, like playing with his teeth and behind his back, but it wasn’t in an upstaging sense at all, and that was it. He walked off, and my life was never the same again.”

 

[KeithR]

WBF is a gear centric forum not a music focused one even so some might be interested in the topic. Best way to find out is to start a few threads, I bet depending on the genre you pick and the angle of discussion you’ll find participants here.

david

To that end I started numerous music threads and nobody cares so gave up.

better off at Steve Hoffman’s place for music

 

[ddk]

To that end I started numerous music threads and nobody cares so gave up.

better off at Steve Hoffman’s place for music

Good to know!
david

 

[BruceD]

Interesting observation and well thought summation Tima- Arpeggios ?

--maybe before though, the Vox Populi of WBF possibly need to figure--

Every Good Boy Deserves Fruit--or F A C E. Even Picasso learnt to draw first

Consensus may deliver as Tima suggests but I feel the Status Quo will prevail--

Could be a start though-- speaking for myself my understanding of the "makeup" of Music as we hear and present it has helped me since the

50's when I started lessons ever since allowing me to delve deeper into the presentation I am experiencing .

Good Listening,

BruceD

 

[tima]

50's when I started lessons ever since allowing me to delve deeper into the presentation I am experiencing .

Good for you Bruce! I found playing an instrument was at the same time the most relaxing and the most invigorating activity I've experienced.