What are the correct priorities for system upgrades??
- Thread starter Barry2013
- Start date
1. Mains power supply (conditioning, mains cables, mains noise reduction throughout house i.e. Isotek Isoplugs).
2. Auxiliary grounding devices (i.e Entreq).
3. Source.
4. Speakers.
5. Amplification.
6. All other cabling except for mains (see 1 above).
2. Auxiliary grounding devices (i.e Entreq).
3. Source.
4. Speakers.
5. Amplification.
6. All other cabling except for mains (see 1 above).
crucial system upgrades:
1) first walk the dogs
2) send the missus out visiting friends
3) wait 'til night time
4) smoke a cheesy spliff
1) first walk the dogs
2) send the missus out visiting friends
3) wait 'til night time
4) smoke a cheesy spliff
Most people consider me to be quite "grounded", so no...I've no need for it!
But seriously, it does seem like this is becoming more of a priority for many.
1. find what type of sound you like, tubes vs SS, laid back vs dynamic
2. are you going digital or analog
3. start small and work your way up the chain slowly
4. read forums and learn from others mistakes and knowledge
5. the direction you go with what you buy doesn't matter as long as you have a good plan and direction on what you want out your system.
2. are you going digital or analog
3. start small and work your way up the chain slowly
4. read forums and learn from others mistakes and knowledge
5. the direction you go with what you buy doesn't matter as long as you have a good plan and direction on what you want out your system.
I have come to believe there are 3 fundamentals to deal with first and foremost:
1. Power
This is a vast subject, and in it, I include dedicated lines, balanced power or isolation transformers, AC conditioners/filters, linear power supplies, proper chassis grounding and additional 'grounding' schemes like what Entreq does for the signal planes.
Inevitably, cabling (and not just the power cables since grounding issues can transfer over near your small signal cabling and then get amplified...) is crucial here.
2. Vibration Control/Isolation
I posted a more in-depth exploration of what's needed for this, but basically: internal vibration control, component-to-component isolation, air-induced vibration isolation or damping, seismic isolation.
When you get the Power right, you also need to combine vibration isolation/control for your power, especially if you have an AC conditioner.
3. Room Diagnosis and Organic Treatment
Quite a vast subject as well. The amount and nature of treatment here is related to the room's construction as well as to your speaker construction.
The room response should be measured with something like R.E.W. (highly recommended and free) and a good microphone.
From there, the largest peaks and troughs deviating from a smooth and flat response should be identified and treated.
Treat bass response first as there is a lot of energy in these regions and since they are non-directional, they linger on. For organic treatment, glass fibre in room corners works well.
With common speakers, then you can consider treating the first reflections, and additionally include a diffusion panel.
Do not immediately head for DSP room treatment when doing this, but strive first to tame the room response with analogue, organic treatment. Don't deaden the room. Use additional DSP if and only if there is at least one troublesome peak/trough that is still giving you a hard time and organic can't tame it. Only use common DSP if you're listening to PCM (until DSD processing becomes more available - not easy but doable in digital, easy in analogue).
And the Zeroth requirement:
0. Learn to listen
This requires stopping the focus on frequency perception, and rather also incorporating notions like timbre accuracy, soundstage accuracy, transient reproduction, rapidity and accuracy of transients, accuracy of reverb tails, 'presence', 'holography', 'reality'.
It helps to acquire the 'Hi-Fi' mindset, i.e. the pursuit of your equipment providing as close as possible the experience of a live environment, or the microphone feed, or the master 'tapes'.
For that, it is necessary to calibrate your ears to live, acoustic music from time to time. This is helpful even if you listen preferably to electronic music.
Also, instead of stale 'digital vs analogue/vinyl' discussions, ask the other party instead 'What are you listening for? What are you hearing that makes you like it?'.
Only after these come the rest, things like Amp + Speakers and DAC.
1. Power
This is a vast subject, and in it, I include dedicated lines, balanced power or isolation transformers, AC conditioners/filters, linear power supplies, proper chassis grounding and additional 'grounding' schemes like what Entreq does for the signal planes.
Inevitably, cabling (and not just the power cables since grounding issues can transfer over near your small signal cabling and then get amplified...) is crucial here.
2. Vibration Control/Isolation
I posted a more in-depth exploration of what's needed for this, but basically: internal vibration control, component-to-component isolation, air-induced vibration isolation or damping, seismic isolation.
When you get the Power right, you also need to combine vibration isolation/control for your power, especially if you have an AC conditioner.
3. Room Diagnosis and Organic Treatment
Quite a vast subject as well. The amount and nature of treatment here is related to the room's construction as well as to your speaker construction.
The room response should be measured with something like R.E.W. (highly recommended and free) and a good microphone.
From there, the largest peaks and troughs deviating from a smooth and flat response should be identified and treated.
Treat bass response first as there is a lot of energy in these regions and since they are non-directional, they linger on. For organic treatment, glass fibre in room corners works well.
With common speakers, then you can consider treating the first reflections, and additionally include a diffusion panel.
Do not immediately head for DSP room treatment when doing this, but strive first to tame the room response with analogue, organic treatment. Don't deaden the room. Use additional DSP if and only if there is at least one troublesome peak/trough that is still giving you a hard time and organic can't tame it. Only use common DSP if you're listening to PCM (until DSD processing becomes more available - not easy but doable in digital, easy in analogue).
And the Zeroth requirement:
0. Learn to listen
This requires stopping the focus on frequency perception, and rather also incorporating notions like timbre accuracy, soundstage accuracy, transient reproduction, rapidity and accuracy of transients, accuracy of reverb tails, 'presence', 'holography', 'reality'.
It helps to acquire the 'Hi-Fi' mindset, i.e. the pursuit of your equipment providing as close as possible the experience of a live environment, or the microphone feed, or the master 'tapes'.
For that, it is necessary to calibrate your ears to live, acoustic music from time to time. This is helpful even if you listen preferably to electronic music.
Also, instead of stale 'digital vs analogue/vinyl' discussions, ask the other party instead 'What are you listening for? What are you hearing that makes you like it?'.
Only after these come the rest, things like Amp + Speakers and DAC.
Excellent post, YashN. After that superb summary, I would add proper set up: meaning speaker/listener locations, analog cartridge/arm set up/alignment, component matching etc. Having a good reference, against which to compare your progress, is mandatory.
Yep. I think you work backwards toward the source. As far as equipment goes, speakers will determine the sonic signature of your system more than anything else.
the upgrade path shpuld be from source to ear.
Make sure everything is clean. Clean physical media. Clean Power..Clean ears. Attack vibrations and resonances. Check in room response.Finally get a hot bath and a massage.I love your speakers.
Make sure everything is clean. Clean physical media. Clean Power..Clean ears. Attack vibrations and resonances. Check in room response.Finally get a hot bath and a massage.I love your speakers.
Thanks a lot Peter,
Instead of 'first reflections' in the post, meant 'second reflections'. The first reflections will have been dealt with by default after diagnosis.
As for the other equipment, one can start with a very modest set up and iterate from there.
Heard a lot of great reports about it but I'm not sure I have heard it myself (I may have in Audio shows).
Speakers are the biggest source of distortion ( have the least fidelity) in any system so logic would dictate that you should
focus your attention on those first. I suspect however that it will soon become evident that the right answer is, sell everything and buy the Kii 3.
I have no affiliation but I know how good the Ncores are . . . .
focus your attention on those first. I suspect however that it will soon become evident that the right answer is, sell everything and buy the Kii 3.
I have no affiliation but I know how good the Ncores are . . . .
I guess I am the only one that disagrees with this.
Sure, the speakers will make the biggest discernible difference, but if the sources are inferior, you will end up with an accurate representation of an inferior signal.
If the plan is to upgrade the entire system in question, over time, I believe the source is where to start.
I also believe in source first, but I did it completely in reverse this time around. It just happened that way and was never planned.
1. Genesis G7.1f loudspeakers
2. Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Integrated Amp.
3. Oracle Paris Mk V turntable.
1. Genesis G7.1f loudspeakers
2. Marantz Reference PM-KI-Pearl Integrated Amp.
3. Oracle Paris Mk V turntable.
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