I think it was all another neurosis foisted on us by cartridge companies as a marketing ploy. If you don't hear your cartridge mistracking, don't worry about it. There is a big difference between test records and the records you play every day.
What does being a good "tracker" mean?
- Thread starter Johnny Vinyl
- Start date
One of my best sounding cartridges, a Kiseki Lapis Lasuli Ruby - yes, the body of the cartridge was in lapis lasuli stone and the cantilever in ruby - was a terrible tracker. I tried with with many tonearms, but about one in each twenty LPs would produce occasionally the unpleasant sound of distortion due to mistracking, although it sounded great on the other nineteen. Two other samples I knew about also suffered from the same problem. one of them even more severely than mine.
In the end I sold it to a collector, and bought a lapis lasuli neck lace to my wife - that had a much larger quantity of lapis lasuli and was less expensive than the cartridge! .
In the end I sold it to a collector, and bought a lapis lasuli neck lace to my wife - that had a much larger quantity of lapis lasuli and was less expensive than the cartridge! .
The reason I wanted a "good tracker" was because most LPs have lousy manufacturing tolerances -- warps, wobbles, etc.
The Telarc 1812 canon shots had 6 Hz fundamentals.
To look at extremes, the Shure V15 was a great tracker but I somehow never liked the sound. A wicked-expensive (for me, back then ) Koetsu sounded sweet but wouldn't track worth a durn. I ended up with a Grace F9E as my main cart for years, after playing with dozens of them (and several tonearms and TTs -- another reason to get away from vinyl; too much to dial in!)
The Telarc 1812 canon shots had 6 Hz fundamentals.
To look at extremes, the Shure V15 was a great tracker but I somehow never liked the sound. A wicked-expensive (for me, back then ) Koetsu sounded sweet but wouldn't track worth a durn. I ended up with a Grace F9E as my main cart for years, after playing with dozens of them (and several tonearms and TTs -- another reason to get away from vinyl; too much to dial in!)
Hard work does not bother me.
Endless hours that I could be listening (or playing) music does... Though back then I had much more time to tweak than now. Or maybe I just got tired of it.
Not to mention the expense (so I just did
). No way I could do that now, without the resources of working at a high-end store with lots of toys to play with and try out.
Endless hours that I could be listening (or playing) music does... Though back then I had much more time to tweak than now. Or maybe I just got tired of it.
Not to mention the expense (so I just did
). No way I could do that now, without the resources of working at a high-end store with lots of toys to play with and try out.
Lol Don, I hardly play my LPs now. ...For the same reasons.
{Well, I ain't a high-end audio dealer though.}
45s?
{Well, I ain't a high-end audio dealer though.}
45s?
Bob and Don, now that the word is out that you have LPs in your possessions and unplayed, I must warn you to not give detailed assessments of their condition lest the vinyl sharks begin to circle!
Ehem.
Ehem.
I have seen the Telarc 1812 album mentioned several times throughout this thread. The problem is that if it is mistracked a few times the album becomes damaged and the best cartridge in the world will sound distorted. So you need to keep a stock of them to try new cartridges on.
Just my old opinion, YMMV.
Just my old opinion, YMMV.
Don,
IMHO , it is one reason we can not discard convenience as an important part of high-end. I have owned several turntables, but looking retrospectively to the last 20 years I played many more LPs in the SME30 with an SME V arm than with any other turntable I own or have owned just because it was easy to setup, very stable and did not need teaking or maintenance.
Myles - Thanks so much for that link!
Think I'll look into getting a good test record...any in particular that stand out?
Think I'll look into getting a good test record...any in particular that stand out?
Now what table could you be referring to
No Myles, I never had any problems of water running out the tonearm's air holes or had to go out shopping at 2 am looking for dental floss ...
No Myles, I never had any problems of water running out the tonearm's air holes or had to go out shopping at 2 am looking for dental floss ...
Oh, I wasn't thinking of those tables, though they might quite easily fit the bill. It was a table however made on your side of the big pond
Bob and Don, now that the word is out that you have LPs in your possessions and unplayed, I must warn you to not give detailed assessments of their condition lest the vinyl sharks begin to circle!
Ehem.
At one time I had a little DJ business on the side and owned well over 3000 LPs. Won't hold a candle to what some of you have, but was a big number for me. I sold/gave away all but about 300, and they have been in storage (with the TT/arm/cart) for the past couple of decades. I shudder to think what shape any of that stuff is in now...In The Early Days, when the CD was Young, LPs sounded way better for numerous reasons. Sometime in the 80's or 90's the crossover happened for me, and CDs caught up. At least with good mastering. Which most recordings just don't seem to have, and the CD was more ruthless in exposing flaws in the recording, a problem to this day as far as I can tell. The last time my TT was set up was late 90's/early 2000's, probably pushing ten years ago now.
Truth is, I know it's flaws, it's noise, it's higher distortion, it's painful daily tweaking, the instantaneous wear (LPs are a destructive medium), etc. and I still miss that sound!
Well, yeah, maybe he did... Are you saying pounding the thing with a wooden club is not an option?
You meant "tweaking" right?
Bob,
No, I was referring to fine tuning my exotic teak tonearm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNGFB--bTZ8
Tim, please do not use this example to prove that some audiophiles never admit being wrong
HI All,
I don't think I am going to say anything that has not already been alluded to by others. But they did not address the problem directly which is what I think the OP wanted. I'll give it a shot.
Tracking is an easy idea. It is the ability of the stylus to maintain contact with the groove under all conditions and groove modulation levels. If the stylus looses contact with the groove it is either bouncing around making occasional contact with the groove or floating in free space, thus known as mistracking. In either case, distortion increases rapidly. The sound of classic inner groove distortion is a prime example of mistracking.
A properly set up system should NEVER mistrack. Many things feed into the proper set up. VTF, VTA, tone arm/cartridge mass mismatches, skating force, stylus overhang, stylus wear, and more can cause the groove to stylus alignment to be out of a perfect relationship. This is why the set up is something of an art form and requires experience and experimentation to get right.
I can tell you that I have not heard mistracking in my system since the early 1970's. The are a couple of reasons for this. First, the quality level of my system has constantly improved over the years. Next, I learned a lot during the process. The quality of cartridges in general have improved to permit tracking higher groove velocities. I believe this technical challenge has been won except for the low end cartridges. Any cartridge that costs over $300 should never mistrack if all the other conditions are met.
One should not tolerate mistracking ever. A stylus that is bouncing around in the groove functions much like a jack hammer and will destroy the vinyl thus your record. And the damage is permanent. I would think that any audiophile that hangs out in this forum has long passed mistracking as a problem simply because of the experience level and quality of the equipment that these forum members have.
As for records that can unmask tracking problems, I have a few. The best are the Sheffield Track and Drum records. If your system can track these records flawlessly, it can track anything.
One last thing. As I'm sure most of you know, buying used records can be fraught with difficulties. One of the most frustrating is an otherwise good record that has been damaged by a previous owner who played the record with a worn or damaged stylus. This will cause a damaged groove. Then when you play the record with a perfectly good set up and stylus, you will hear the groove damage. Don't be too fast to judge that your system has a problem. It could easily be the new record. This is a pretty common problem.
Sparky
I don't think I am going to say anything that has not already been alluded to by others. But they did not address the problem directly which is what I think the OP wanted. I'll give it a shot.
Tracking is an easy idea. It is the ability of the stylus to maintain contact with the groove under all conditions and groove modulation levels. If the stylus looses contact with the groove it is either bouncing around making occasional contact with the groove or floating in free space, thus known as mistracking. In either case, distortion increases rapidly. The sound of classic inner groove distortion is a prime example of mistracking.
A properly set up system should NEVER mistrack. Many things feed into the proper set up. VTF, VTA, tone arm/cartridge mass mismatches, skating force, stylus overhang, stylus wear, and more can cause the groove to stylus alignment to be out of a perfect relationship. This is why the set up is something of an art form and requires experience and experimentation to get right.
I can tell you that I have not heard mistracking in my system since the early 1970's. The are a couple of reasons for this. First, the quality level of my system has constantly improved over the years. Next, I learned a lot during the process. The quality of cartridges in general have improved to permit tracking higher groove velocities. I believe this technical challenge has been won except for the low end cartridges. Any cartridge that costs over $300 should never mistrack if all the other conditions are met.
One should not tolerate mistracking ever. A stylus that is bouncing around in the groove functions much like a jack hammer and will destroy the vinyl thus your record. And the damage is permanent. I would think that any audiophile that hangs out in this forum has long passed mistracking as a problem simply because of the experience level and quality of the equipment that these forum members have.
As for records that can unmask tracking problems, I have a few. The best are the Sheffield Track and Drum records. If your system can track these records flawlessly, it can track anything.
One last thing. As I'm sure most of you know, buying used records can be fraught with difficulties. One of the most frustrating is an otherwise good record that has been damaged by a previous owner who played the record with a worn or damaged stylus. This will cause a damaged groove. Then when you play the record with a perfectly good set up and stylus, you will hear the groove damage. Don't be too fast to judge that your system has a problem. It could easily be the new record. This is a pretty common problem.
Sparky
