What is the most musical, fast and accurate subwoofer you have heard?

[LL21]

Very much looking forward to learning more. Particularly there has been quite a lot of discussion (that I am paying attention to anyway) about subs being blended with panels and horns and just generally with SOTA reference speakers, where the subs come in under 35hz to create greater musical foundation, sense of venue (not bang-bang-boom-boom)...and often to create a more dextrous and mellifluous midrange and treble.

Part of the equation is its ability to create exactly the low-bass drive, foundation, low-distortion air movement...while not adding upper range confusion.

Part of the equation is simply air displacement...where some proponents are for greater surface area and/or greater air displacement capability where the sub and its parts (cones or panels like PureLow) are simply 'loafing' moving that much air so effortlessly.

Part of the equation is the ability to blend and have loads of adaptability into systems and particularly into different rooms.

Given that VS has spent quite a lot of time in its history on the engineering of its designs, I would be particularly interested in to learn how VS thinks about the above concepts in the context of their Shockwaves.

In my own case (system below) I have been considering 2 x dual-opposing 18" cones designed by Nathan Funk in order to ensure extreme air displacement in a room 46' x 17' x 11' but not necessarily at high volume, just at extraordinarily low distortion...otherwise, just stick with the very competent Velodyne DD18+. I also have been intrigued by the PureLow panel subs (1m' of surface area with low excursion as a panel, but apparently exceptionally well executed).

Very intrigued to learn more about Shockwave, which I have certainly looked at online more than a few times.

Perhaps, if you/they have time, you could help get us a 'commercial/technical view' from VS about how they attack the challenge. As you suggested, the Shockwave seems to be with other non-VS systems in mind as well, depending on their own capabilities and technical features. Thank you for any insights and guidance.

 

[LL21]

I agree, Ajant. Neutrality of a subwoofer without considering the excitation of room modes is not a good recipe for success. My reference for this purpose is Von Schweikert Shockwave subwoofers in 12" or 15" sizes.

I am a strategic advisor to VSA and have accepted a permanent executive role as of the new year. Therefore, please consider this informational and not a definitive comparison against other subwoofer manufacturers, types, and methods of use.

We like to keep things simple, direct, and effective.

Von Schweikert Shockwave subwoofers:
We created a line of subwoofer systems exclusively designed for high-performance music reproduction. The subwoofers take a direct signal off the main speakers' bass output binding posts. We then incorporated a proprietary transformer-isolated bass amplifier we have named FOUNDATION, produced in Southern California. Features include analog controls for:

- variable phase 360 degrees
- gain boost/cut
- various crossover settings and
- low-frequency boost and cut

Using the Foundation system, we can dial in a precise amount of negative bass pressure, effectively canceling room bass modes. So as not to give the wrong impression, the Shockwave woofers can be used in typical fashion to create a massive amount of clean, undistorted bass energy. We often combine bass reinforcement (amplification) and room mode cancellation to create a best-of-both-world result. A nice benefit is that the need for room treatment and DSP room correction can be minimized or eliminated. We are not anti-DSP, which can be a powerful and valuable tool; however, this is our engineering team's preferred approach.

Note: All VSA primary speakers are supplied with separate bass and mid/high binding posts, and the crossover networks internally isolate those ranges. Many of today's best speakers also offer that convenience, so we see many applications for using shockwave woofers with other high-end loudspeaker designs.

Ron, given your proximity to the factory, we look forward to visiting you early in the new year with Shockwave subwoofers to evaluate alongside your Clarysis. We have never tested Shockwave woofer technology with ribbons, so we are keen to know what kind of result we can achieve by blending them with your ultra-fast full-range ribbons.

View attachment 142819View attachment 142820

Very much looking forward to learning more. Particularly there has been quite a lot of discussion (that I am paying attention to anyway) about subs being blended with panels and horns and just generally with SOTA reference speakers, where the subs come in under 35hz to create greater musical foundation, sense of venue (not bang-bang-boom-boom)...and often to create a more dextrous and mellifluous midrange and treble.

Part of the equation is its ability to create exactly the low-bass drive, foundation, low-distortion air movement...while not adding upper range confusion.

Part of the equation is simply air displacement...where some proponents are for greater surface area and/or greater air displacement capability where the sub and its parts (cones or panels like PureLow) are simply 'loafing' moving that much air so effortlessly.

Part of the equation is the ability to blend and have loads of adaptability into systems and particularly into different rooms.

Given that VS has spent quite a lot of time in its history on the engineering of its designs, I would be particularly interested in to learn how VS thinks about the above concepts in the context of their Shockwaves.

In my own case (system below) I have been considering 2 x dual-opposing 18" cones designed by Nathan Funk in order to ensure extreme air displacement in a room 46' x 17' x 11' but not necessarily at high volume, just at extraordinarily low distortion...otherwise, just stick with the very competent Velodyne DD18+. I also have been intrigued by the PureLow panel subs (1m' of surface area with low excursion as a panel, but apparently exceptionally well executed).

Very intrigued to learn more about Shockwave, which I have certainly looked at online more than a few times.

Perhaps, if you/they have time, you could help get us a 'commercial/technical view' from VS about how they attack the challenge. As you suggested, the Shockwave seems to be with other non-VS systems in mind as well, depending on their own capabilities and technical features. Thank you for any insights and guidance.

 

[treitz3]

@gleeds - Congratulations on your new position!

Tom

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, given your proximity to the factory, we look forward to visiting you early in the new year with Shockwave subwoofers to evaluate alongside your Clarysis. We have never tested Shockwave woofer technology with ribbons, so we are keen to know what kind of result we can achieve by blending them with your ultra-fast full-range ribbons.

I am looking forward to it!

 

[gleeds]

Very much looking forward to learning more. Particularly there has been quite a lot of discussion (that I am paying attention to anyway) about subs being blended with panels and horns and just generally with SOTA reference speakers, where the subs come in under 35hz to create greater musical foundation, sense of venue (not bang-bang-boom-boom)...and often to create a more dextrous and mellifluous midrange and treble.

Part of the equation is its ability to create exactly the low-bass drive, foundation, low-distortion air movement...while not adding upper range confusion.

Part of the equation is simply air displacement...where some proponents are for greater surface area and/or greater air displacement capability where the sub and its parts (cones or panels like PureLow) are simply 'loafing' moving that much air so effortlessly.

Part of the equation is the ability to blend and have loads of adaptability into systems and particularly into different rooms.

Given that VS has spent quite a lot of time in its history on the engineering of its designs, I would be particularly interested in to learn how VS thinks about the above concepts in the context of their Shockwaves.

In my own case (system below) I have been considering 2 x dual-opposing 18" cones designed by Nathan Funk in order to ensure extreme air displacement in a room 46' x 17' x 11' but not necessarily at high volume, just at extraordinarily low distortion...otherwise, just stick with the very competent Velodyne DD18+. I also have been intrigued by the PureLow panel subs (1m' of surface area with low excursion as a panel, but apparently exceptionally well executed).

Very intrigued to learn more about Shockwave, which I have certainly looked at online more than a few times.

Perhaps, if you/they have time, you could help get us a 'commercial/technical view' from VS about how they attack the challenge. As you suggested, the Shockwave seems to be with other non-VS systems in mind as well, depending on their own capabilities and technical features. Thank you for any insights and guidance.

Damon is deep into fine-tuning our new speakers before they ship. I spoke with him about this thread, and once time permits, he is eager to hop on the thread and further discuss his and Albert's findings on the matter and what goes into using the Shockwave system for its intended purpose. I can say unequivocally that improvements further up the range, especially mid-bass and midrange clarity, are a by-product of the system. Please PM me and let us know where you are located, and perhaps we can arrange a trial set-up at your place.

 

[gleeds]

As promised, more to come. After a two-month break-in, Damon returned to New Jersey to fine-tune the Shockwave subs and help install a second set of WestminsterLab Rei amplifiers, now powering the Ultra sevens towers in bridged mode. We thank Mobiusman for trusting us to replace his former subwoofers with the Shockwave system.

 

[infinitely baffled]

As promised, more to come. After a two-month break-in, Damon returned to New Jersey to fine-tune the Shockwave subs and help install a second set of WestminsterLab Rei amplifiers, now powering the Ultra sevens towers in bridged mode. We thank Mobiusman for trusting us to replace his former subwoofers with the Shockwave system.

View attachment 143494

Any pics o the subs?

 

[gleeds]

Any pics o the subs?

I'll ask Damon and Russ. They are placed in the back right and left corners of Mobiusmans room.

 

[andromedaaudio]

What is the most musical, fast and accurate subwoofer you have heard?​

Its under construction at the moment .

 

[M-dB]

October 2016, are you still interested?

In 1967 I was taught how to find a rooms standing waves to position a subwoofer, currently referred to as the subwoofer crawl, by the recording engineer who sold me his Octavium cabinet with a personally modified Altec gain/EQ.

A Miller & Kreisel Volkswoofer replaced the Octavium in 1978.

Beginning in 1983 the Velodyne ULD-18, Foundation 18 and the HGS-18. Sometime during the DD-18 I was able to compare a REL Studio III and a JL Audio F113 in the house. Finally in 2011 two Velodyne DD-12 Plus and a 10 Plus in the studio.
While Velodyne's used the same familiar DD parameter titles their effect became far more refined with the Plus.

After unboxing and performing the crawl the Plus, or any sub for that matter is positioned.
The Plus Auto EQ replaces the once tedious trial and error adjustments to an automatic twenty minute process.
The 200Hz Sweep Tones CD is played through the main speakers and the subwoofer simultaneously.
The almost fifteen year old Plus software adjusts its fourteen parameters to the sub from 100Hz closely matching the speakers general in room presentation through the crossover region and beyond.

Clearly reviewers did not read the setup process throughly. Most of the ill positioned Plus reviews stopped at the Auto EQ.

The Audioholics ill positioned review followed the Auto EQ with some individual manual adjustments. Unfortunately the Audioholics failed to use and review the remarkable software upgrade titled the Frequency Response and Parameters Screen.
This allows for multiple parameters to be dragged and dropped variably and parametrically. Hearing the Q change as your dragging the symbol makes the manual adjustments quick, foolproof and easy.

If there's another subwoofer that provides this level of idiot proof ease of setup as well as such a robust, low distortion and accurate presentation please let me know?

Since the 2019 sale of the company any recommendation comes with a cautionary asterisk not to mention their price increase.

 

[treitz3]

October 2016, are you still interested?

Hi, always interested!

I am currently running a pair of Rythmik F-25's, set up on spiked Target MR (Maximum Rigidity) stands. These are both set up in stereo and I have had years of fine tuning experience with them, with a plethora of gear, sources and cables. I have eyed plenty of different subs throughout the years and try to get my ear on as many different types/setups as possible. This one >>> https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/pure-low-gr-infrasonic-panel.39635/ has perked my interest, but I haven't heard it yet. I'd also like to hear a rotary subwoofer one of these days.

About 17 years or so ago, I ran with a single VMPS Larger and used a Velodyne.....oh what was it......I think the SMS-1? I then added one of my 13 (at the time) amplifiers to the VMPS to power it (passive sub). I will agree that the auto settings/calibrations were only the beginning. The final adjustment was always done by ear.

My journey with subs has not yet ended. That said, I am very content (at the moment), but always on the lookout to push the envelope...as much as my wallet will allow, that is. My only absolute requirement that will never be wavered? There is and can be absolutely no boom at the bottom. I can't stand that. At all. As soon as I hear something that bests what I currently have? I'll pounce.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[LL21]

October 2016, are you still interested?

In 1967 I was taught how to find a rooms standing waves to position a subwoofer, currently referred to as the subwoofer crawl, by the recording engineer who sold me his Octavium cabinet with a personally modified Altec gain/EQ.

A Miller & Kreisel Volkswoofer replaced the Octavium in 1978.

Beginning in 1983 the Velodyne ULD-18, Foundation 18 and the HGS-18. Sometime during the DD-18 I was able to compare a REL Studio III and a JL Audio F113 in the house. Finally in 2011 two Velodyne DD-12 Plus and a 10 Plus in the studio.
While Velodyne's used the same familiar DD parameter titles their effect became far more refined with the Plus.

After unboxing and performing the crawl the Plus, or any sub for that matter is positioned.
The Plus Auto EQ replaces the once tedious trial and error adjustments to an automatic twenty minute process.
The 200Hz Sweep Tones CD is played through the main speakers and the subwoofer simultaneously.
The almost fifteen year old Plus software adjusts its fourteen parameters to the sub from 100Hz closely matching the speakers general in room presentation through the crossover region and beyond.

Clearly reviewers did not read the setup process throughly. Most of the ill positioned Plus reviews stopped at the Auto EQ.

The Audioholics ill positioned review followed the Auto EQ with some individual manual adjustments. Unfortunately the Audioholics failed to use and review the remarkable software upgrade titled the Frequency Response and Parameters Screen.
This allows for multiple parameters to be dragged and dropped variably and parametrically. Hearing the Q change as your dragging the symbol makes the manual adjustments quick, foolproof and easy.

If there's another subwoofer that provides this level of idiot proof ease of setup as well as such a robust, low distortion and accurate presentation please let me know?

Since the 2019 sale of the company any recommendation comes with a cautionary asterisk not to mention their price increase.

Interesting! Big fan of the Velodyne...went F-15, then DD18 then DD18+, and now considering dual Funk 18.2 or possibly these Pure Lows.

Agree on the finetuning of the DD18+...incredibly flexible. I had a pro do it who brought his own mike/measuring while setting up the Wilsons and then dialed it in. Next phase I suspect will be utilizing the Wilson Crossover and possible dual subs to actually pass the Wilsons at 33hz-38hz, possibly more possibly less.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Atk Cornerhorn lightning fast and accurate, in every corner of your main speaker and stackable. You need only 20watt to get your house demolish

Audio Technik GmbH

Audio Technik GmbH, Herstellung und Vertrieb von Lautsprechern

www.lowther.de

 

[Elliot G.]

 

[Elliot G.]

these are incredible even when they are in black LOL

 

[M-dB]

LL21, do you have any knowledge regarding Velodyne GmbH?
There was a wiff that they might incorporate iPhone as another control method or if they're actually producing the Plus series?

In early 2018 I was picking up one of my 12" which had its remote receiver replaced at Morgan Hill. A fellow was going to help me load it. As I was rearranging two longboards David Hall introduced himself. Embarrassingly I mentioned that I had unknowingly purchased this particular DD-12 from the skurge of the New Jersey grey market. Mr. Hall said, "yeah, that guy's been in jail for some time."

He was more interested in the boards and how the swell was that morning. They walked me partly through the facility, the on hand inventory was massive. I've been to Musical Surroundings and Magico, Velodyne was on a whole other scale.