What speakers would you look at in the $12-14K range?

[DaveC]

So many choices!

I'd also consider Vapor Audio Joule or Nimbus. Good value for the money, the Nimbus Black would probably be my choice of the bunch unless you really like Accuton. The Audiotechnology mids combined with the RAAL tweeter are excellent and combine seamlessly. You could get some nice upgrades in your budget too... higher end xo components, higher end RAAL tweeter. They use an Audio Elegance 15" TD-15H woofer, which is also excellent. And they are efficient enough and the impedance is smooth enough a big SET amp works extremely well... they are amp friendly in general. TAD Evolution towers would be possible used. It would be a stretch but maybe the TAD Compact Reference, IMO the TAD Ref series are as perfect as it gets.

 

[amirm]

Some of the characteristics and targets of these speakers can be found in Roger Sanders dispersion whitepaper: http://sanderssoundsystems.com/technical-white-papers/147-dispersion-white-paper

When I spoke to him he said those white papers are copies of the posts he had written for us first!

 

[Bachtoven]

DALI Epicon 6s should be on your list--I love my Epicon 2s, so I imagine the addition of a ribbon tweeter and dual larger woofers would really sound killer!

 

[Lee]

DALI Epicon 6s should be on your list--I love my Epicon 2s, so I imagine the addition of a ribbon tweeter and dual larger woofers would really sound killer!

I will look for them.

As for the Focal recommendations, we have a local Focal dealer so I will see about hearing the Sopras.

 

[Folsom]

At that price looks become a concern. There's so many good choices at that level. I basically refuse to choose a standard box unless it's got some particularly nice looks.

The Ryan Tempus III is worth looking at. I think the MSRP is a little bit higher, but a dealer probably has some marked closer to $14k. (Might be the best thing in the price range)

I would never go with Vandersteen because I find the look atrocious, but no one's going to say they aren't good.

Vapor's Nimbus is interesting to me.

The Sopra 1 appeals to me more than the 2.

Usher has several models in that range, and they're favored well.

But if I had to choose myself, it'd be between the Raidho C1.1 and Vapor Nimbus, in that price range. (I'd skip Raidho's stands)

 

[DaveC]

I like Raidho but their markup is insane. Par for the course these days but imo the value just isn't there in many of these kinds of brands. The C1.1 is $18k with stands for a small 2-way monitor. The Vapor Nimbus is around $5k less for the top model and is a 3-way with some of the world's best drivers including an AE TD-15H 15" woofer, which probably costs more than Raidho's entire speaker.

 

[Robh3606]

The laws of physics dictate that all stereo speakers will have an infinitely small sweet spot, regardless of their high frequency dispersion. That spot is when you are exactly equidistant from both speakers. Only when you are equidistant from the speakers can the phase information arrive at your ears simultaneously from both speakers. Obviously, there is no hope of imaging well if the sounds from both speakers do not arrive at the same time as the phasing will be destroyed.

That's interesting I find that pin point imaging sounds artificial. It's really cool but it just doesn't sound natural to me. You look at horns at all?? Might want to look at the JBL Array 1400's Under your budget but nice speakers none the less.

Rob

 

[Folsom]

I like Raidho but their markup is insane. Par for the course these days but imo the value just isn't there in many of these kinds of brands. The C1.1 is $18k with stands for a small 2-way monitor. The Vapor Nimbus is around $5k less for the top model and is a 3-way with some of the world's best drivers including an AE TD-15H 15" woofer, which probably costs more than Raidho's entire speaker.

Vapor doesn't manufacturer their own extremely complicated & low volume drivers. They also don't sell to Asia markets where you can't make money with direct sale markup prices (not even close). The Raidho's have one of probably top 5, if not 3, high frequency transducers there is on the planet. And I'm very partial to bookshelves. Vapor's Aurora appeals to me, a lot.

But as I said, I'm totally biased towards looks, too. If I wanted performance the Ryan's are probably it, but I'd like to compare the Nimbus with high hopes.

 

[DaveC]

Vapor doesn't manufacturer their own extremely complicated & low volume drivers. They also don't sell to Asia markets where you can't make money with direct sale markup prices (not even close). The Raidho's have one of probably top 5, if not 3, high frequency transducers there is on the planet. And I'm very partial to bookshelves. Vapor's Aurora appeals to me, a lot.

But as I said, I'm totally biased towards looks, too. If I wanted performance the Ryan's are probably it, but I'd like to compare the Nimbus with high hopes.

I know, but $18k for a small monitor? We both know you are paying $10k+ for marketing and image. As I said, par for the course in the "high end"... this is a good product for folks that already have a $1M system and just need something for their bathroom system.

 

[Folsom]

Dave, once in awhile I want an out of print album. Typically the price is HORRENDOUSLY marked up compared to other albums, but it's the album I want...

 

[Bruce B]

I'd also agree with Usher, Raidho and Joseph Audio speakers.
Hell, you could get a nice pair of used Wilson's with that budget.

 

[taters]

I like Raidho but their markup is insane. Par for the course these days but imo the value just isn't there in many of these kinds of brands. The C1.1 is $18k with stands for a small 2-way monitor. The Vapor Nimbus is around $5k less for the top model and is a 3-way with some of the world's best drivers including an AE TD-15H 15" woofer, which probably costs more than Raidho's entire speaker.

Isn't the mark up Insane on most high-end speakers? It seems like the biggest bargains come from the companies that sell factory direct. In general you save the 40 percent the stores make plus the high advertising costs. Of course there are always exceptions to this.

 

[Alpinist]

My vote:
The 20.7 and powerful tube amp. Properly set up in the right room, that is the only time in over 40 years in audio that a pair of speakers sounded EXACTLY like a live piano.

Hi Audioguy,

I agree with you 100%. I've not heard speakers that reproduce the image and tonality of a piano better than the 20.7's. I've auditioned the Analysis Audio Omega, Quad 2912 and Martin Logan Montis for planar speakers and the Raidho D3, Magico S5, Vandersteen 7 and Revel Salon 2 for dynamic speakers.

Best,
Ken

 

[Alpinist]

I like Raidho but their markup is insane. Par for the course these days but imo the value just isn't there in many of these kinds of brands. The C1.1 is $18k with stands for a small 2-way monitor. The Vapor Nimbus is around $5k less for the top model and is a 3-way with some of the world's best drivers including an AE TD-15H 15" woofer, which probably costs more than Raidho's entire speaker.

Dave,

If you go to a Raidho dealer that discounts properly, you will pay far less than MSRP. Raidho dealers are extremely price competitive because there is no distributor and the manufacturer doesn't enforce minimum pricing or territories.

Ken

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Ken, I still have to listen to the 20.7. The analysis you heard, were the crossovers modded? Also, did you hear them with the hybrid class D arion amps, because I don't like those. What did you think of the Montis?

 

[Alpinist]

Hi Ken, I still have to listen to the 20.7. The analysis you heard, were the crossovers modded? Also, did you hear them with the hybrid class D arion amps, because I don't like those. What did you think of the Montis?

Hi Bonzo,

I heard the AA Omega with outboard crossovers and the Arion solid state/tube hybrid mono blocks. Pretty nice amps but I agree they leave some room for improvement. But in my opinion, the Omega are not even close on piano to the 20.7. The image size, scale and tonality of the 20.7 on piano are better than any other speaker I've ever heard. The closest was probably the Apogee Diva demonstrated by the late Jason Bloom. I'll just say the Montis is not my cup of tea.

Best,
Ken

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Bonzo,

I heard the AA Omega with outboard crossovers and the Arion solid state/tube hybrid mono blocks. Pretty nice amps but I agree they leave some room for improvement. But in my opinion, the Omega are not even close on piano to the 20.7. The image size, scale and tonality of the 20.7 on piano are better than any other speaker I've ever heard. The closest was probably the Apogee Diva demonstrated by the late Jason Bloom. I'll just say the Montis is not my cup of tea.

Best,
Ken

Interesting because when I heard the analysis with the NAT they had the best piano. I didn't like them with the Arion. I will try to listen to the 20.7, but haven't found a set up on the EU as yet. I gave heard various apogees, full range, diva and duetta Sig.

 

[DaveC]

Isn't the mark up Insane on most high-end speakers? It seems like the biggest bargains come from the companies that sell factory direct. In general you save the 40 percent the stores make plus the high advertising costs. Of course there are always exceptions to this.

40 percent, eh? One of the problems with the industry is there are a lot of manufacturers and only so many dealers, as lots of B&M stores went out of business. Often the manufacturers are making half as much as the dealers on sales to encourage the dealer to sell their brand.

 

[DaveC]

Dave,

If you go to a Raidho dealer that discounts properly, you will pay far less than MSRP. Raidho dealers are extremely price competitive because there is no distributor and the manufacturer doesn't enforce minimum pricing or territories.

Ken

Right, lets turn buying speakers into an experience much like buying cars...

Not sure what to think, except maybe it's mandatory for Asian markets as everyone expects a discount and nobody will pay full retail so you have this retail price nobody ever pays.

 

[taters]

40 percent, eh? One of the problems with the industry is there are a lot of manufacturers and only so many dealers, as lots of B&M stores went out of business. Often the manufacturers are making half as much as the dealers on sales to encourage the dealer to sell their brand.

No offense, but I don't really believe that. Give me an example of a speaker that is sold through normal distribution channels that work that way.