What turntables do you use? Pictures would be nice as well :-)

[Salectric]

@Robert Young
Do you have a link to the place where you bought your slate? I am in the midst of investigating different plinth materials and I would like to try a slate platform.

 

[Robert Young]

@Robert Young
Do you have a link to the place where you bought your slate? I am in the midst of investigating different plinth materials and I would like to try a slate platform.

My plinth was built by Jim Campbell of Royersford PA. He’s a craftsman, a technician and a gentleman…

jec@afo.net

 

[AudioHR]

That's a good question, and one that in the little tiny world of turntable DIY efforts has caused more angry posts than just about anything else. On Lenco Heaven it once rivalled the Tube vs. Solid State flame wars on Audiogon (and elsewhere).

So what follows is my pseudo-science-based opinion:

I never tried granite as a plinth as 1) it rings like a bell; 2) it's hard to work; 3) I really don't like the way it looks (and as an architect, I've seen a lot of granite. Sorry, just don't like it, from Absolute Black to Baby-Sh!t spotted tan...not my thing).

So slate? Well, it acts differently than granite. As an anisotrophic material (referring to an object or substance having a physical property that has a different value when measured in different directions. A simple example is wood, which is stronger along the grain than across it), it provides a route for vibrations to move easily only in one direction, which is parallel to the plinth. This is because being formed from sedimentary processes then metamorphized and folded, it is made up of layers that cleave along a weak line of mica deposits (this is what makes harder slates excellent for roof tiles: it splits along one axis into workable shingles), and as vibrations like to travel along the path of least resistance, they move along the cleavage lines but not through it. well, not as much...Anyway, we can't know which direction the vibrations are coming from, whether they are from the motor, the cartridge, air-born, or foot fall. But I like the idea (whether it's real science or my own personal BS) that i can mitigate the vertical movement in the plinth. Horizontal? well i think i'd like to try a Herzan or something like it. Not all slate is the same. Some is very hard (really good for roofs and flooring) and some is soft (good for plinths). Pennsylvania Slate is soft, as is the Italian slate that Stacor uses in their racks.

Now after writing all that, I looked up the spelling of Stacor and found this, which is more succinct than my rambling. But I spent time writing it, so I won't erase it! LOL.

STACORE: “Slate – a natural metamorphic stone with a fine foliated structure. The main building material of our anti-vibration platforms. It has unique damping characteristics due to a combination of high mass, softness, and a fine layered structure. The layered structure, unlike e.g. crystalline structure of granite, efficiently dissipates vibrational energy by the layer-to-layer friction."

So that's one part...the other is that it is beautiful, and that plays not a small part in the overall experience of enjoying music i love...Does it sound "better" than other materials? Not sure. The Slate Lenco is truly spectacular as a full front end, but so is the TD 124 and its wood plinth. And what i most like is that i don't ever find myself thinking about the "sound" of any part of the front end except the cartridge...and that's another problem all its own.

Now there is an answer! Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the thought you put into it.

Your explanation of the benefits of slate is plausible although I think it may be a flip a coin between real science and personal BS, lol. Personal feeling and perception, science or not, is relevant in this hobby so I can understand your opinion.

I have placed a granite slab underneath my Brinkmann Bardot. My reason for using the granite was based on the recommendation of a dealer and my understanding that Brinkmann also recommends
granite as a base. It definitely makes a positive difference although I haven't compared it to other bases.

Based on your response I will likely search out some soft slate and check it out. Love this hobby!

 

[Salectric]

My plinth was built by Jim Campbell of Royersford PA. He’s a craftsman, a technician and a gentleman…

jec@afo.net

Thank you!

 

[Robert Young]

Now there is an answer! Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the thought you put into it.

Your explanation of the benefits of slate is plausible although I think it may be a flip a coin between real science and personal BS, lol. Personal feeling and perception, science or not, is relevant in this hobby so I can understand your opinion.

I have placed a granite slab underneath my Brinkmann Bardot. My reason for using the granite was based on the recommendation of a dealer and my understanding that Brinkmann also recommends
granite as a base. It definitely makes a positive difference although I haven't compared it to other bases.

Based on your response I will likely search out some soft slate and check it out. Love this hobby!

as a non-scientist, i had to put the qualifier in there, just to differentiate from another non-scientist all over the audio hobby web who claims to be an authority on all things material based…yet gets many fundamentals wrong. But my explanation was first explained to me by Jarek of Stacore, who is a real-life physicist, so there’s a bit of solid physics in there somewhere. Just don’t ask me where…

i wish Jarek would publish his table, which he entitled “Lenco L75 Assault” on the Lenco Heaven site, as it is a stunner, and he directly addresses plinth issues with the knowledge gained from Stacore’s amazing work…

(edited for some atrocious spellun.)

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have placed a granite slab underneath my Brinkmann Bardot.

It definitely makes a positive difference although I haven't compared it to other bases.

Hi!

Would you please explain the positive difference to which you are referring?

 

[AudioHR]

Hi!

Would you please explain the positive difference to which you are referring?

My feeling was that my Bardo/Hana was even more grounded than usual. By grounded I mean that the bass sounded more defined, there seemed to be a quieter floor to the sound and I would say the musicians had more of their own identity in the soundstage. It just settled everything in. Hard to describe actually.

A few of my audio buddies commented that my vinyl always seemed very quiet but that the Bardot system made it even quieter.. By quieter they were referring to a lower noise floor, less surface noise and less conspicuous tics and pops. I suppose this is also related to the system and the care I have taken for my vinyl. Many of my first vinyl purchases from the late 60's/ early 70's still sound great and have few tics and pops.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My feeling was that my Bardo/Hana was even more grounded than usual. By grounded I mean that the bass sounded more defined, there seemed to be a quieter floor to the sound and I would say the musicians had more of their own identity in the soundstage. It just settled everything in. Hard to describe actually.

A few of my audio buddies commented that my vinyl always seemed very quiet but that the Bardot system made it even quieter.. By quieter they were referring to a lower noise floor, less surface noise and less conspicuous tics and pops.

Very interesting, thank you!

Brinkmann seems to recommend almost like it is OEM the HRS granite platform for Brinkmann turntables. For this reason I got the HRS platform for my Balance.

 

[AudioHR]

Very interesting, thank you!

Brinkmann seems to recommend almost like it is OEM the HRS granite platform for Brinkmann turntables. For this reason I got the HRS platform for my Balance.

Yes I saw that in their literature, so that is why I purchased a granite slab. It's heavy, looks nice and seems to have some positive influence on the sound.

I should add that the granite slab rests on a Plateau stand that has it main posts sand filled. So the stand itself is fairly heavy. This basic stand with 1/2 " mdf shelves rest on a concrete floor. I decided to put a 1/4" dense foam anti static pad used by the computer industry between the stands top shelf and the granite to get a completely non slip/ non resonant connection. No scientific reason for this it just felt right.

Given the weight of the granite and the consequent turntable adjustments I would likely have to do , I have not done my usual listen to the old, change to the new and listen, go back to the old and listen, decide which I like best protocol ( sometimes going through this sequence more than once, lol) .

So what are you finding with your Balance? Does the granite HRS platform have any influence on the sound.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My Balance is not playing yet.

I won't be taking it on and off the HRS platform, so I will not know the sonic effect of the HRS platform.

 

[Robert Young]

Yes I saw that in their literature, so that is why I purchased a granite slab. It's heavy, looks nice and seems to have some positive influence on the sound.

I should add that the granite slab rests on a Plateau stand that has it main posts sand filled. So the stand itself is fairly heavy. This basic stand with 1/2 " mdf shelves rest on a concrete floor. I decided to put a 1/4" dense foam anti static pad used by the computer industry between the stands top shelf and the granite to get a completely non slip/ non resonant connection. No scientific reason for this it just felt right.

Given the weight of the granite and the consequent turntable adjustments I would likely have to do , I have not done my usual listen to the old, change to the new and listen, go back to the old and listen, decide which I like best protocol ( sometimes going through this sequence more than once, lol) .

So what are you finding with your Balance? Does the granite HRS platform have any influence on the sound.

This minor off-ramp from the highway of the OT should probably jump over to another category. As I wrote earlier, it is a wildly provocative topic for DIY turntable builders, and the debate often results in no one learning anything, and just holding tight onto their biases.

HRS platforms are made of granite...but "manufactured from 70+ parts and six different materials, including two proprietary polymers, billet machined aircraft aluminum housing and polished black granite." (from their website)

What you are "hearing" is not granite in isolation, but a system in a relatively thin package that mitigates or at least reduces the impact of structure borne vibration on the performance of the playback chain. Based on the objective that HRS sets out to achieve, you should not hear anything at all from the base, just what you were intended to hear from the recording: it doesn't add anything, just helps remove.

Taking one part of a system out of that system and expecting to behave like the system most likely not going to work. Granite does not damp vibration (not "dampen" - that means it made something moist), it allows wave propagation in all directions due to its crystaline structure. But in combination with the other 69+ parts and 5+ materials in the HRS base (particularly the polymers, I would propose), it participates in HRS' rather successful isolation base system. I have an older HRS M# isolation base under my amplifier. If I rap a piece of granite with a tight grain, like what HRS uses, it rings. If I rap the HRSS base, it's dead. The system they designed does what they propose, but just one part of that system won't.

Here's another approach, by Chris Brady of Teres. I have owned this 'table since it ended its run on the show circuit. It is a stunningly good performer for the price, and I had no reason to be unhappy with it. I went to a Lenco L75/PTP 6 when I jumped back into this insane habby because the Teres was (and remains) packed up in a trunk 215 miles away...


Cocobolo chips n dust in a West-type epoxy compressed mass, with zones drilled out and filled with lead shot, and veneered with more cocobolo. All the wood n epoxy parts are working together as a system with the aluminum stand-offs that corral more lead shot. Pic is from VSAC 2003. I had a Schroeder Reference on it as well, with an Allaerts MC-1b. A lovely table. Pain to move.

 

[No Regrets]

This minor off-ramp from the highway of the OT should probably jump over to another category. As I wrote earlier, it is a wildly provocative topic for DIY turntable builders, and the debate often results in no one learning anything, and just holding tight onto their biases.

HRS platforms are made of granite...but "manufactured from 70+ parts and six different materials, including two proprietary polymers, billet machined aircraft aluminum housing and polished black granite." (from their website)

What you are "hearing" is not granite in isolation, but a system in a relatively thin package that mitigates or at least reduces the impact of structure borne vibration on the performance of the playback chain. Based on the objective that HRS sets out to achieve, you should not hear anything at all from the base, just what you were intended to hear from the recording: it doesn't add anything, just helps remove.

Taking one part of a system out of that system and expecting to behave like the system most likely not going to work. Granite does not damp vibration (not "dampen" - that means it made something moist), it allows wave propagation in all directions due to its crystaline structure. But in combination with the other 69+ parts and 5+ materials in the HRS base (particularly the polymers, I would propose), it participates in HRS' rather successful isolation base system. I have an older HRS M# isolation base under my amplifier. If I rap a piece of granite with a tight grain, like what HRS uses, it rings. If I rap the HRSS base, it's dead. The system they designed does what they propose, but just one part of that system won't.

Here's another approach, by Chris Brady of Teres. I have owned this 'table since it ended its run on the show circuit. It is a stunningly good performer for the price, and I had no reason to be unhappy with it. I went to a Lenco L75/PTP 6 when I jumped back into this insane habby because the Teres was (and remains) packed up in a trunk 215 miles away...

View attachment 116609
Cocobolo chips n dust in a West-type epoxy compressed mass, with zones drilled out and filled with lead shot, and veneered with more cocobolo. All the wood n epoxy parts are working together as a system with the aluminum stand-offs that corral more lead shot. Pic is from VSAC 2003. I had a Schroeder Reference on it as well, with an Allaerts MC-1b. A lovely table. Pain to move.

This will always be, imho, one of the most beautiful looking tables ever made
Unfortunately, I was never able to hear one in person, but I'm not ashamed to say that I had lusted for one back in the day!

Best wishes,
Don

 

[Robert Young]

This will always be, imho, one of the most beautiful looking tables ever made
Unfortunately, I was never able to hear one in person, but I'm not ashamed to say that I had lusted for one back in the day!

Best wishes,
Don

Sadly it sits in a crate in my 99-year old father's basement. It really was a tremendous table, and Chris Brady was always accessible and helpful. I think it was hard for Chris to continue with the company when his father passed and some of the skills the family employed to build the tables went with him. I hope to set it back up again someday when i have more space (which means when I'm no longer in NYC). If you count the B&O 1000 that I'm restoring for a design junky who loves Jakob Jensen's work, I have 5 turntables. Why?? I don't even have a decent pair of interconnects. What a crazy hobby.

 

[No Regrets]

Sadly it sits in a crate in my 99-year old father's basement. It really was a tremendous table, and Chris Brady was always accessible and helpful. I think it was hard for Chris to continue with the company when his father passed and some of the skills the family employed to build the tables went with him. I hope to set it back up again someday when i have more space (which means when I'm no longer in NYC). If you count the B&O 1000 that I'm restoring for a design junky who loves Jakob Jensen's work, I have 5 turntables. Why?? I don't even have a decent pair of interconnects. What a crazy hobby.

Yes, indeed it certainly can be a crazy hobby! You have a collection of turntables. I keep adding to my collection of records....why??? I have hundreds and hundreds of mint and near mint records of highly sought after classical, jazz, vocals, etc. I could play a few records every night for a year or longer and never have a repeat... but I keep buying, lol. I don't buy to collect or to resell for a higher price down the road... I buy to listen as I truly love music. I'll have to stop buying soon though as I am running out of room

Best wishes,
Don

 

[cytovette]

I use a 1999 Technics SL1200 M3D with some mods I did myself.
Origin Live Onyx tonearm
External power supply
Ian Mac bearing
Sorbothane feet
Rope caulk in the plinth
Rubber spikes, no mat, similar to Reso-Mat spikes that I also have
Blue LED in the pop up light
KAB wood case (I did not make this)

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

This minor off-ramp from the highway of the OT should probably jump over to another category. As I wrote earlier, it is a wildly provocative topic for DIY turntable builders, and the debate often results in no one learning anything, and just holding tight onto their biases.

HRS platforms are made of granite...but "manufactured from 70+ parts and six different materials, including two proprietary polymers, billet machined aircraft aluminum housing and polished black granite." (from their website)

What you are "hearing" is not granite in isolation, but a system in a relatively thin package that mitigates or at least reduces the impact of structure borne vibration on the performance of the playback chain. Based on the objective that HRS sets out to achieve, you should not hear anything at all from the base, just what you were intended to hear from the recording: it doesn't add anything, just helps remove.

Taking one part of a system out of that system and expecting to behave like the system most likely not going to work. Granite does not damp vibration (not "dampen" - that means it made something moist), it allows wave propagation in all directions due to its crystaline structure. But in combination with the other 69+ parts and 5+ materials in the HRS base (particularly the polymers, I would propose), it participates in HRS' rather successful isolation base system. I have an older HRS M# isolation base under my amplifier. If I rap a piece of granite with a tight grain, like what HRS uses, it rings. If I rap the HRSS base, it's dead. The system they designed does what they propose, but just one part of that system won't.

Here's another approach, by Chris Brady of Teres. I have owned this 'table since it ended its run on the show circuit. It is a stunningly good performer for the price, and I had no reason to be unhappy with it. I went to a Lenco L75/PTP 6 when I jumped back into this insane habby because the Teres was (and remains) packed up in a trunk 215 miles away...

View attachment 116609
Cocobolo chips n dust in a West-type epoxy compressed mass, with zones drilled out and filled with lead shot, and veneered with more cocobolo. All the wood n epoxy parts are working together as a system with the aluminum stand-offs that corral more lead shot. Pic is from VSAC 2003. I had a Schroeder Reference on it as well, with an Allaerts MC-1b. A lovely table. Pain to move.

A 'Teres Audio Model 340' custom turntable...... beautiful !

 

[Salectric]

Thank you for those comments @Robert Young. I have considered getting a HRS platform for my Galibier turntable but the granite top has always held me back. My experience with granite has not been good. I used to have a 3” thick granite slab (180 lbs) and I have also tried an Adona granite/mdf platform. Both of them have a cold, glassy, unmusical sound. Maybe HRS has discovered a way around the granite colorations.

 

[AudioHR]

My Balance is not playing yet.

I won't be taking it on and off the HRS platform, so I will not know the sonic effect of the HRS platform.

I am sure you will enjoy the Balance on the HRS stand. As Robert Young says elsewhere in this thread it is a sophisticated system for resonance control not just a hunk of granite.

For those of us that like to explore around the edges the granite was a very inexpensive tweak. The HRS product is an end game resonance control system and priced accordingly.

 

[Birdwatcher]

I can say, the HRS product as is, is a fantastic, genuine solution as a base for different audio equipment.
If you want to try granite as a base, combine it with a same size and thickness aluminium base, laying just directly under the granite base. And maybe some polyisomer, sorbothan or sylomer feet or an air-damping unit under this sandwich construction, just as a cheap trick. It is amazing, how two in itself ringing materials like granite and Aluminium makes a complete different result, when used as sandwich in direct contact to each other.

 

[mtemur]

This one is made by Kondo for Ginga turntable, 2 granite blocks sandwiched with copper. It belongs to a friend and we tested it under a couple of turntables and a CD transport. It works very well.