What's best in highly sensitive/efficient speakers.

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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No, home demo only. My suspicion is that Graham's Harbeths are not a million miles from my Zu signature, so if he loves the PAP Horns...

Also, I recently heard an interesting set of horns that cross to woofers at 950Hz, and they were very interesting bar a bass extension issue. If the PAP Horns can replicate a lot of the magic of these horns w better bass extension, then I'm hooked.

Also, imho OB bass done well can be class leading, so Graham's spkrs could tick a lot of boxes.
 

Exlibris

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No, home demo only. My suspicion is that Graham's Harbeths are not a million miles from my Zu signature, so if he loves the PAP Horns...

Also, I recently heard an interesting set of horns that cross to woofers at 950Hz, and they were very interesting bar a bass extension issue. If the PAP Horns can replicate a lot of the magic of these horns w better bass extension, then I'm hooked.

Also, imho OB bass done well can be class leading, so Graham's spkrs could tick a lot of boxes.
I've heard Harbeths but have not heard Zus. From what I've read, however, I would have thought they weren't very similar(?)
 

spiritofmusic

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Maybe Exlibris. I guess there is a limit as to using mere words to describe concepts that defy easy description.

Graham's ballpark descriptions seem to match w mine. Despite the technical specs on Harbeths and Zus being chalk and cheese.
 

spiritofmusic

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Pay a deposit, get the spkrs delivered in three boxes, put it together. PAP arrange for collection after 15/30 days, if not keeping, deposit returned minus charge for handling.

Sound Of Tao knows more.
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Pay a deposit, get the spkrs delivered in three boxes, put it together. PAP arrange for collection after 15/30 days, if not keeping, deposit returned minus charge for handling.

Sound Of Tao knows more.
But each Pap can sound different? To do justice you will have to keep it longer and try the various configurations, or you will have to visit people who have got differently configured PAPs to see which one rocks your boat
 

spiritofmusic

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Ked, there are four PAPs ie Horn1, Heil, Voxativ, TB. So, one could pay four deposits, receive twelve boxes, and do a series of compares.
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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Pay a deposit, get the spkrs delivered in three boxes, put it together. PAP arrange for collection after 15/30 days, if not keeping, deposit returned minus charge for handling.

Sound Of Tao knows more.
I think you’re being kind to say I know more lol. I just saw it on the internet.

Marc, Ze’ev from pureaudioproject is great.

I love both the Harbeth 40.2s and the Pap trio horns but they are such very different speakers. But both are based in delivering music. I will live with both because I can. They are a fabulous combo of choice.

The 40.2s are perfect for casual listening and are rich, dense, involving, alive and sonorous.

The Pap horns are such different beasts. With the upgrades I’ve been able to do they are just sensational. They reach low enough for any acoustic music right through to completely doing justice to large orchestral forces. In concert with the SET and Zotl pre they do a grand piano in glorious fashion.

The thing that both speakers share is that they just really come to life with the LM SET. Super happy and I’m resolved.
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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But each Pap can sound different? To do justice you will have to keep it longer and try the various configurations, or you will have to visit people who have got differently configured PAPs to see which one rocks your boat
Ked, the horns are boat rockers par excellence! I think you’d like them.
 
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spiritofmusic

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The fitting out options look pretty endless. Despite the reviews saying they are a complete product in their own right, and not just a DIYer's heaven, I can't help but feel as they come, they're purely a foundation or blank canvas for optimising.

Reviews talk about upgrading caps and resistors in the crossovers, rewiring, even changing binding posts.

One review waxes lyrical about turning the PAPs 90° and siting them "portrait style".

Graham, are they great and pretty fully formed out of the crates? Or do they only show their colors once attention to crossovers and wiring is shown?
 

the sound of Tao

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Marc I don’t know how the horns sound without upgraded wiring. I gave them pure silver hookup foils originally because my system is built around all silver signal cables.

The upgrading of caps is a joy. The stock crossover capacitor is good. The potential of employing better is eye opening. I am yet to put the pathaudio copper resistors in as I just wanted to appreciate the cap upgrade first.

The pap horn as stock is great.
 

spiritofmusic

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Graham, are these upgrade options straightfwd and user friendly retro fittable?

You haven't seen anything until you see me wield a soldering iron LOL.

So, are there designer approved cap and resistor upgrades? And complete re wiring looms? All available from PAP?

I still remain intrigued you feel the need for subs, w four 15" woofers available.

Are you going to biamp? With SS, or tubes? Dsp assisted?
 

Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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Graham, are these upgrade options straightfwd and user friendly retro fittable?

You haven't seen anything until you see me wield a soldering iron LOL.

So, are there designer approved cap and resistor upgrades? And complete re wiring looms? All available from PAP?

I still remain intrigued you feel the need for subs, w four 15" woofers available.

Are you going to biamp? With SS, or tubes? Dsp assisted?
Marc I think the crossover is designed in such a way that you don’t even need to solder as it uses clips. Kind of idiot proof. All you need to do is ensure you purchase exact same values (or in the case of ratings, same or better)
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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Yes to the first and second part.

Yes on wiring upgrades.

Caps and resistor upgrades, these are up to you.

My answer on subs stands as before... I am just exploring/considering options but this is as much about enjoying the possibility for a diy project as anything... tho there is zero chance of DSP and it may be isobaric and it would be powered by mosfet.

But before then I will be upgrading the 805 and 300B valves in the LM SET. That may buy the last few Hz and solve the riddle of the sub. I do prefer simplicity over complexity but I’m happy to wait and see.
 
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the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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Marc I think the crossover is designed in such a way that you don’t even need to solder as it uses clips. Kind of idiot proof. All you need to do is ensure you purchase exact same values (or in the case of ratings, same or better)
Bill, I am proof it is kind of idiot proof.
 

spiritofmusic

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You sure i couldn't SCREW it up LOL?
 

bonzo75

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spiritofmusic

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Well, I managed to upgrade the two caps and resistors on my Zus w the Duelund upgrade kit, without putting my (well intentioned) foot in it.

So...
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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I'm pretty impressed w the variety of wholly positive reviews for the PAP Horns. Graham, you need to open that dedicated thread.

What I like about the reviews is that they're not just listing the usual set of audiophile tickboxes, but communicating a real enthusiasm for the product, helped in no small part by it's amazing price point.

I've heard a potentially promising horn/woofer spkr recently, but it was hampered in a few ways, one being the crossover to the bass driver being at 950Hz. Bass felt a little MIA that day. I believe the PAP crosses to the twin 15"s at 500-550Hz, which should result in a beefier more solid bass quality.

Also my tt designer swears by OB, starting w Bastanis, and now his own project. Despite never being fully convinced by his overall sound, his bass is by far the best I've ever heard in a domestic environment and I'd be curious if the PAP bass emulates his in any way.
 

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