What's best in highly sensitive/efficient speakers.
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KeithR, Voxativ has been on my radar but I haven't heard much about them on this site or elsewhere for the past few years. I could hear them if I made a 4 hour trip and I plan to do that later this summer. The Ref 3a don't seem to be all that efficient(?) I'd be willing to give Devore another chance -- I'm not sure which model I've heard but I don't think it was the Gibbon.
Ref 3a doesn't use a crossover, so will perform more efficient than its specs. But I don't know the amp you intend to use - R3A certainly won't work well with flea watt amps (nor will Zu- Druid probably needs 8 watts).
The Gibbon series is more modern sounding than ANs or Orangutans due to its narrow cabinet, side firing woofers, etc. It still has some resonance used in the cabinet in the bass, but isn't a total live cabinet like your ANs. But it isn't SET friendly.
I'm using a Thomas Meyer 45 amp that puts out about 1.5 watts. It puts out more power with 2A3s but I've always preferred 45s. This amp on my AN-Es sounds about as powerful as the 18 watt Mastersound parallel 300B monoblocks that it replaced. While the amp sounds more powerful that it's numbers, I am definitely looking for SET-friendly speakers because I don't want to push the amp hard and I want the presentation to sound relaxed and not strained.
I have been seriously looking into the reference line of REL subwoofers. I didn't have any luck integrating down-firing subs into past systems but these front-firing ones seem to have gained some converts. I'm just wondering how they would sound paired with some high-efficiency speakers that may not be the last word in low-end extension and massive soundstage.
I have been seriously looking into the reference line of REL subwoofers. I didn't have any luck integrating down-firing subs into past systems but these front-firing ones seem to have gained some converts. I'm just wondering how they would sound paired with some high-efficiency speakers that may not be the last word in low-end extension and massive soundstage.
@Exlibris - is worth you speaking with Blue58 as he runs his Duo Omega off some rather serious home brew 1.5wpc 45 monos based on drlowmu's designs. He actually has two pairs, one being configured around some extremely rare centre tapped EML 45 Globes from a rerun I commissioned Jac to do a few years back.
Here you go, 1w Thomas Mayer amp with 10y pre driving 122 Db horns. My report towards the end
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...tations-to-all&p=505350&viewfull=1#post505350
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...tations-to-all&p=505350&viewfull=1#post505350
Exlibris, Zu are fantastic at getting to the heart of the musical message, just nailing tone density and “the note”.
But I’ll freely admit I struggled to pin down true transparency, microdynamics, timbre and imaging.
It took me the radical move to a much more sympathetic acoustic environment, and low noise floor isolated power grid, to get my Zus to open up.
After a lot of wrangling they’re really starting to address a lot of the shortcomings I listed.
However Id never claim they excel in these more hifi type attributes.
Early user reports on the new Druid VI, plus Sjraen’s 6Ms review, points to this newest Zu finally successfully addressing what Zu had been challenged by, so keeping Zu core attributes of full fleshed out tone and shove, and adding a lot of new things to love like air, texture, microdynamics, low level detail etc.
This has been achieved by maxxing stiffness and lightness of the full range drivers and cabinets, the former w new Nanotech coatings to the 10” Eminence cones, and the latter via careful blending of carbon fibre and birch/ply.
By all accounts $10k gets you a lot of speaker w the Druid VI.
But I’ll freely admit I struggled to pin down true transparency, microdynamics, timbre and imaging.
It took me the radical move to a much more sympathetic acoustic environment, and low noise floor isolated power grid, to get my Zus to open up.
After a lot of wrangling they’re really starting to address a lot of the shortcomings I listed.
However Id never claim they excel in these more hifi type attributes.
Early user reports on the new Druid VI, plus Sjraen’s 6Ms review, points to this newest Zu finally successfully addressing what Zu had been challenged by, so keeping Zu core attributes of full fleshed out tone and shove, and adding a lot of new things to love like air, texture, microdynamics, low level detail etc.
This has been achieved by maxxing stiffness and lightness of the full range drivers and cabinets, the former w new Nanotech coatings to the 10” Eminence cones, and the latter via careful blending of carbon fibre and birch/ply.
By all accounts $10k gets you a lot of speaker w the Druid VI.
Have always wanted to hear a TM amp - heard great things. Yeah, I'd be looking at 100db speakers for 1.5 watts. Zu Def will not work at all - the Druid will, although might be compromised on big classical. Plenty of people use the Yamamoto on them. The Voxativ Pi system might be a better solution for your room however w/ the integrated bass modules - at a much higher price though.
You could avoid trying to mix too much with the woofers by going with a Swarm setup. That way you get the immersion experience without having to worry about integration. Technically you'd have a slightly soft spot between the two most likely, but it wouldn't probably ever concern you. Aside from that I'd look at Funk before REL. They also won't look so out of place.
Keith, why no on the Defs? I thought efficiency of the Defs and Druids were roughly similar, 101dB/1m.
Wow, that zerostargeneral is serious! I bet the 46 sounds fantastic as an output tube on his amps. It's best I not hear it or I'd hamstring myself even more regarding speaker options. I read some reviews of the Pnoe that was at Munich this year but I never did any further investigation because the listeners didn't seem too enamored with them. The Voxativ "near" me is the Ampeggio -- not the new Amgeggio X with the field coil.
The one at Munich was bad. I already addressed that in my report on the last page of that thread or so. This one is different.
I've never heard of Funk but I now see that they are Canadian! I will definitely investigate. I'm curious, why Funk and not REL of JL Audio?
An acquaintance I trust that can buy pretty much anything his heart desires prefers the Funk's over the rest by far. He prefers them over subwoofers that have made the JL look more clumsy by several people's comparison. Funk seems to have conquered issues that usually a servo is needed to improve, without resorting to servos.
Has anyone heard the Voxativ AMPEGGIO X (10th Anniversary Field-Coil Edition) or the original Ampeggio?
Exlibris, certainly if I moved onto something a little more specialist than my Zus, the Voxativ would be on my radar.
Not the ones you mentioned, but the 9.87, which comes w the choice of a couple of full range drivers options, and also a field coil driver alternative.
I quite like what the package represents, including integral Class AB powered subs using opppsing 12” woofers.
Even better might be the Maxonic field coil spkrs at 106 dB/1m efficient. I have a chance to hear these on (of all things) an all-Soulution digital/amps chain.
I have to tell you, after a ton of wrangling, tweaking and optimising, my Zus are absolutely singing, and I’d really implore you to hear either the Druid VI or Definitions IV.
Not the ones you mentioned, but the 9.87, which comes w the choice of a couple of full range drivers options, and also a field coil driver alternative.
I quite like what the package represents, including integral Class AB powered subs using opppsing 12” woofers.
Even better might be the Maxonic field coil spkrs at 106 dB/1m efficient. I have a chance to hear these on (of all things) an all-Soulution digital/amps chain.
I have to tell you, after a ton of wrangling, tweaking and optimising, my Zus are absolutely singing, and I’d really implore you to hear either the Druid VI or Definitions IV.
The USD 100k voxativ ampeggio due that looked like a pair of large TV screens was awful to my ears.
Marc,
Zu is definitely on my radar and you know I have that demo coming up. I can go the extra mile to hear the Druid VI or Definitions IV after that.
I'm planning on going to a system of 3 or 4 subwoofers to smooth out the bass problems in my room and add more of a sense of space and immersion to my system. As such, I wouldn't need the 9.87 because most of the frequency range below 100hz or so will be covered. The thing is, I like a really 'big' sound and I'm not sure I can get that from the single Voxativ driver. The Zu 'deaf heads' in combination with the subs might actually sound good.
Once in a while I check out the Steve Hoffman forum and the last time I checked, he had moved from Voxativ to AN-Es so I'd be going in the other direction. He loved the Voxativ but found them a little hot and aggressive at times and loves the warmth and tone of the AN-E. I'm in that camp myself and, believe it or not, I'd actually like a speaker that was even warmer that my AN-Es. I can't stand any sort of upper midrange or treble hotness, whiteness, aggression, brightness, shout, tightness, or hardness. That was the main problem I had with the Tune Audio Marvel. My room is problematic because it has lots of glass and concrete that I'm not willing to cover up so it's part of the equation and I work within those confines when selecting gear. I'll stop rambling now.
Zu is definitely on my radar and you know I have that demo coming up. I can go the extra mile to hear the Druid VI or Definitions IV after that.
I'm planning on going to a system of 3 or 4 subwoofers to smooth out the bass problems in my room and add more of a sense of space and immersion to my system. As such, I wouldn't need the 9.87 because most of the frequency range below 100hz or so will be covered. The thing is, I like a really 'big' sound and I'm not sure I can get that from the single Voxativ driver. The Zu 'deaf heads' in combination with the subs might actually sound good.
Once in a while I check out the Steve Hoffman forum and the last time I checked, he had moved from Voxativ to AN-Es so I'd be going in the other direction. He loved the Voxativ but found them a little hot and aggressive at times and loves the warmth and tone of the AN-E. I'm in that camp myself and, believe it or not, I'd actually like a speaker that was even warmer that my AN-Es. I can't stand any sort of upper midrange or treble hotness, whiteness, aggression, brightness, shout, tightness, or hardness. That was the main problem I had with the Tune Audio Marvel. My room is problematic because it has lots of glass and concrete that I'm not willing to cover up so it's part of the equation and I work within those confines when selecting gear. I'll stop rambling now.
Exlibris, that sort of room is going to be challenging for almost any spkr.
I ran my Zus in a 27x22x13 loft apartment w concrete ceiling, hardwood floor on concrete substructure and the front wall of 27x13 behind my Zus housed 3 no. 9x7 windows.
My sound was a little “hot” in that room, fully ameliorated now by my move to a dedicated room w no concrete or glass and a 3/4 carpeted floor.
I have no idea if it’s the combination of total symmetry of my Zus within the room and acoustic material packed in the floor, walls and eaves that have led to a much calmer, warmer perspective, with v little evidence of nodes and standing waves, hotspots, and the effects of much more managed slap echo.
Or the fact all that concrete, glass and hardwood/concrete has gone.
All I can say is that currently my Zus exhibit no evidence of the aural nasties you object to.
I ran my Zus in a 27x22x13 loft apartment w concrete ceiling, hardwood floor on concrete substructure and the front wall of 27x13 behind my Zus housed 3 no. 9x7 windows.
My sound was a little “hot” in that room, fully ameliorated now by my move to a dedicated room w no concrete or glass and a 3/4 carpeted floor.
I have no idea if it’s the combination of total symmetry of my Zus within the room and acoustic material packed in the floor, walls and eaves that have led to a much calmer, warmer perspective, with v little evidence of nodes and standing waves, hotspots, and the effects of much more managed slap echo.
Or the fact all that concrete, glass and hardwood/concrete has gone.
All I can say is that currently my Zus exhibit no evidence of the aural nasties you object to.
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