Where to start with conditioning

[Superchunk]

Ok, so I have a pretty good, revealing, carefully put together system, but I have never used any form of power conditioner. I use a simple, non protected, fairly transparent power bar. I have dedicated lines for my stereo and use all duelund cabling.

Truth is, it seems like every company says "ours won't dull your system" etc...and it makes me think they will all dull my system. I don't know where to start.

It feels like if I spend $5000 it may be something that I don't like and have to sell off. If I spend $500 I almost definitely won't like it.

Are there any good baby steps? Single outlet product where I can see if I like what it does to different components? Relatively inexpensive ($1k range) products that are generally considered to almost always be "better than nothing"?

I would love to hear any and all thoughts, as I feel like reading reviews and experiences always leaves me feel like doing nothing is the safest bet...and yet, of course many say it's absolutely vital...

 

[Ron Resnick]

If you feel like buying yourself a new toy, Christmas is almost here. Have at it!

Short of money burning a hole in your pocket is there an actual noise problem or grounding problem or hum problem or EMI/RFI problem you have and are trying to remedy?

If you need to spend money on something power related I would much rather see you hire an electrician to run dedicated outlets to your listening room. Maybe also a new fancy sub-panel.

 

[Another Johnson]

Others will have different experiences, but I went through several conditioners (up to about $2k) with mixed results.

I had no faith in the idea of regeneration, and then we went through a period where our power company (TVA) had some serious hash and some wild swings, as confirmed by measurements, and as drawn to my attention when voltage swings went so low that the ARC Ref 6 shut down in protection mode.

So I bought a used PS Audio P12, and it gave an immediate and dramatic improvement in my system (based on ARC at the time).

The P12 was great for my Reference 75 SE, but was not adequate to run my pair of Reference 250SE monoblocks, so I bought a new PS Audio P20. It did not work with my hum prone Conrad Johnson LP275Ms, but it was really nice with the ARC Ref 250SEs.

I have moved on to a Burmester 911 mk3 with Burmester 088, and I’m still in love with the P20.

I am using the P12 with my phono station (ARC Ref Phono 3SE, LP12 with Radikal, Clearaudio Master Reference) and I love it in that spot.

Obviously, this stuff is tied to your own ears. I was an unbeliever… but my ears really like the PS Audio regenerators. I would buy them again. No power noise issues have resurfaced since I made this change, and prior to the change I was dealing with all kinds of noise issues.

 

[Ron Resnick]

doing nothing is the safest bet

Yes, in my experience comparing a variety of these devices typically they change the sound in some way.

and yet, of course many say it's absolutely vital...

Who cares what people say? Who cares what people buy?

The only thing that matters is your ears.

If you can arrange for dealers and friends to loan you a variety of these devices at the same time for you to make leisurely comparisons, and to see if anything improves your sound to your ears on a net basis (remember that merely different short-term does not necessarily mean better long-term!) then I can endorse this process.

 

[Cellcbern]

Ok, so I have a pretty good, revealing, carefully put together system, but I have never used any form of power conditioner. I use a simple, non protected, fairly transparent power bar. I have dedicated lines for my stereo and use all duelund cabling.

Truth is, it seems like every company says "ours won't dull your system" etc...and it makes me think they will all dull my system. I don't know where to start.

It feels like if I spend $5000 it may be something that I don't like and have to sell off. If I spend $500 I almost definitely won't like it.

Are there any good baby steps? Single outlet product where I can see if I like what it does to different components? Relatively inexpensive ($1k range) products that are generally considered to almost always be "better than nothing"?

I would love to hear any and all thoughts, as I feel like reading reviews and experiences always leaves me feel like doing nothing is the safest bet...and yet, of course many say it's absolutely vital...

The two best $1K range, single outlet power products I've encountered are the Lessloss Firewall 640X CMARC, and the Furutech Flux 50(G). I have the former on my ($8K retail) power conditioner, which it enhances, and the later on my integrated amp, tube sacd player, and its separate tube rectified power supply. A "baby step" would be to put one of these (I'd recommend the Lessloss) between your power distributor and its power cable. If you hear an improvement a logical next step would be to replace the power distributor with a power conditioner. The relatively inexpensive Puritan PSM156 only has six outlets but you can plug your power distributor into it to increase the number. I've heard it in half a dozen systems and to my ears it does what a power conditioner is supposed to do without any "dulling" or other negative impacts. Alternatively (or in addition) you could try the Lessloss Stellar noise filtering power cable between the wall and your power distributor, and later upgrade to a power conditioner, with or without the Lessloss Firewall. Note that the CMARC Firewall is the high current version. I wouldn't use the standard version between the wall and a power distributor/conditioner. There are also a number of different "plug-in" noise filters/power quality enhancers that you could experiment with that price wise might be considered "baby steps", and which would make an improvement even if you didn't go the power conditioner route. I have for example Quantum Physics Noise Disruptors, Puron, Snubway, and Akiko passive noise filters, and Nordost QK-1's and QV-2's in my system, and all of which make an improvement without any "dulling". All such devices I buy used to experiment with, and resell the ones that don't make an audible improvement. The ones I've kept I have more than once removed and listened to the system without, then replaced one at a time to verify that they were making the contribution I thought they were.

 

[Gregm]

If you need to spend money on something power related I would much rather see you hire an electrician to run dedicated outlets to your listening room. Maybe also a new fancy sub-panel.

Let me (strongly) echo Ron's advice above. Failing the dedicated line, how about buying 1-2 DC blocker curcuits and hiring said electrician to install them safely? A very inexpensive way of, perhaps, improving your sound. I that doesn't improve your sound, it won't hurt it!

 

[Superchunk]

If you feel like buying yourself a new toy, Christmas is almost here. Have at it!

Short of money burning a hole in your pocket is there an actual noise problem or grounding problem or hum problem or EMI/RFI problem you have and are trying to remedy?

If you need to spend money on something power related I would much rather see you hire an electrician to run dedicated outlets to your listening room. Maybe also a new fancy sub-panel.

Well, I do sorta have money burning a hole in my pocket, but there's a reason I've never bought a power conditioner...there's always something else one could buy that seems more practical (especially as I diy, I can drop bills at parts connexxion so easy)

I do have a dedicated line. Did it make a difference? I had it installed while waiting for new speakers to arrive, after I had sold my old speakers, so it was impossible to really compare.

A fancy new sub panel sounds interesting. My electrician is a buddy so such things are easy and fun for me.

 

[Superchunk]

Let me (strongly) echo Ron's advice above. Failing the dedicated line, how about buying 1-2 DC blocker curcuits and hiring said electrician to install them safely? A very inexpensive way of, perhaps, improving your sound. I that doesn't improve your sound, it won't hurt it!

I will look into what a DC blocker circuit is...

 

[Superchunk]

The two best $1K range, single outlet power products I've encountered are the Lessloss Firewall 640X CMARC, and the Furutech Flux 50(G). I have the former on my ($8K retail) power conditioner, which it enhances, and the later on my integrated amp, tube sacd player, and its separate tube rectified power supply. A "baby step" would be to put one of these (I'd recommend the Lessloss) between your power distributor and its power cable. If you hear an improvement a logical next step would be to replace the power distributor with a power conditioner. The relatively inexpensive Puritan PSM156 only has six outlets but you can plug your power distributor into it to increase the number. I've heard it in half a dozen systems and to my ears it does what a power conditioner is supposed to do without any "dulling" or other negative impacts. Alternatively (or in addition) you could try the Lessloss Stellar noise filtering power cable between the wall and your power distributor, and later upgrade to a power conditioner, with or without the Lessloss Firewall. Note that the CMARC Firewall is the high current version. I wouldn't use the standard version between the wall and a power distributor/conditioner. There are also a number of different "plug-in" noise filters/power quality enhancers that you could experiment with that price wise might be considered "baby steps", and which would make an improvement even if you didn't go the power conditioner route. I have for example Quantum Physics Noise Disruptors, Puron, Snubway, and Akiko passive noise filters, and Nordost QK-1's and QV-2's in my system, and all of which make an improvement without any "dulling". All such devices I buy used to experiment with, and resell the ones that don't make an audible improvement. The ones I've kept I have more than once removed and listened to the system without, then replaced one at a time to verify that they were making the contribution I thought they were.

Excellent, I appreciate this advice a lot, gives me several options to try as baby steps.

 

[Superchunk]

Others will have different experiences, but I went through several conditioners (up to about $2k) with mixed results.

I had no faith in the idea of regeneration, and then we went through a period where our power company (TVA) had some serious hash and some wild swings, as confirmed by measurements, and as drawn to my attention when voltage swings went so low that the ARC Ref 6 shut down in protection mode.

So I bought a used PS Audio P12, and it gave an immediate and dramatic improvement in my system (based on ARC at the time).

The P12 was great for my Reference 75 SE, but was not adequate to run my pair of Reference 250SE monoblocks, so I bought a new PS Audio P20. It did not work with my hum prone Conrad Johnson LP275Ms, but it was really nice with the ARC Ref 250SEs.

I have moved on to a Burmester 911 mk3 with Burmester 088, and I’m still in love with the P20.

I am using the P12 with my phono station (ARC Ref Phono 3SE, LP12 with Radikal, Clearaudio Master Reference) and I love it in that spot.

Obviously, this stuff is tied to your own ears. I was an unbeliever… but my ears really like the PS Audio regenerators. I would buy them again. No power noise issues have resurfaced since I made this change, and prior to the change I was dealing with all kinds of noise issues.

The ps audio gear seems to be a fairly easy buy, lots for sale, so good to have a vote for that stuff.

 

[Anyoldears]

PSM156 - great piece of kit, excellent value for money. Adamaley has one for sale https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-puritan-psm156.38005/ https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pur...136-psm156-psm1512-power-conditioners.963397/

Better than a Niagara 5000!

 

[Cellcbern]

I will look into what a DC blocker circuit is...

Note that the Puritan PSM156 has a DC blocker built in. Of course you may or may not have a DC "leakage" problem to begin with.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I absolutely love the LessLoss products. Also have a few of the Puron Filters.