Which BNC 50-ohm cable for NHB-108 and NHB-18NS interconnection

Mike Lavigne

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For some weeks I have a NHB-18NS for evaluation. I change sometimes between XLR and BNC. My god, the position of the BNC connector at my 458 is really bad. If you have a thick, stiff loudspeaker cable like me, there is near no space to plug my BNC signal cable.

I have mentioned this problem to Herve a number of times. it is a real pain.

with my very stiff Evolution Acoustics BNC 'zeel' combined with the very, very, heavy EA TRSC (triple run speaker cables) I have to use 'zip-ties' to hold both leads on the speaker cable together or the weight of those cables will tend to pull them apart and loosen the Cardas speaker terminal no matter how hard it is cinched.

I can take a picture for you if that might help.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Question for all the experienced dart users:

Does a zeel cable need to break in? Just got a new one and tried it between my CH P1 and the 18NS and it's much lower in volume than my ZenWave D4s and very thin & shrill (like bad digital).

If this type of cable doesn't change with break in then I would have to assume my CH P1 BNC outputs aren't very good!

yes; my Audiodharma Cable Cooker has a BNC adapter I've used. it works.

not sure how dogmatic the 50 ohm interface with the CH Precision is executed......in other words I would consult with CH Precision to see what their take on it is, as to the degree of compatibility with the 18NS.
 

microstrip

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Question for all the experienced dart users:

Does a zeel cable need to break in? Just got a new one and tried it between my CH P1 and the 18NS and it's much lower in volume than my ZenWave D4s and very thin & shrill (like bad digital).

If this type of cable doesn't change with break in then I would have to assume my CH P1 BNC outputs aren't very good!

As far as I can see the 50 ohm output of the CH is shared with the other outputs - this means that when you use the BNC your signal is lowered by 6dB.
 

asiufy

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I don't recall any significant burn in time with my darTZeel BNC cable...

Are you plugging just one output at a time? I mean, either the BNC or the RCAs, not both simultaneously...?
 

redandgold

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Jun 3, 2018
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Question for all the experienced dart users:

Does a zeel cable need to break in? Just got a new one and tried it between my CH P1 and the 18NS and it's much lower in volume than my ZenWave D4s and very thin & shrill (like bad digital).

If this type of cable doesn't change with break in then I would have to assume my CH P1 BNC outputs aren't very good!

Hello MadFloyd,

I unfortunately I don‘t have my own experience with burning in BNCs. But my dealer who left me a NHB-18NS to test with the amps told me, he had realized better sound after burning his cables in.

redandgold
 

redandgold

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Jun 3, 2018
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I have mentioned this problem to Herve a number of times. it is a real pain.

with my very stiff Evolution Acoustics BNC 'zeel' combined with the very, very, heavy EA TRSC (triple run speaker cables) I have to use 'zip-ties' to hold both leads on the speaker cable together or the weight of those cables will tend to pull them apart and loosen the Cardas speaker terminal no matter how hard it is cinched.

I can take a picture for you if that might help.

Hi Mike,

would be nice if you have a photo as sample for better plug in. I remember far away your situation is very tight and your cables are even thicker than mine. My BNC is only similar to the BNC and it is hell. I don‘t understand why the most important input is positioned there.

And you are right: The Cardas don‘t give you the impression they would be unbreakable...

redandgold
 

SCAudiophile

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Sep 11, 2010
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Question for all the experienced dart users:

Does a zeel cable need to break in? Just got a new one and tried it between my CH P1 and the 18NS and it's much lower in volume than my ZenWave D4s and very thin & shrill (like bad digital).

If this type of cable doesn't change with break in then I would have to assume my CH P1 BNC outputs aren't very good!

I've not used 'zeel' cables from Evolution Acoustics or other vendors but have heard the EA are equal to their price in terms of
performance once they settle in and are properly burned in. I can tell you that any 75-ohm, 50-ohm or 110-ohm digital cable
I have ever used for any purpose does require burn-in. The initial results vary in terms of what you hear but they are cables
and in my experience, like everything else, they do require some amount of burn-in. The EA cables are reported to tightly
implement the 50-ohm spec. I agree with Mike and others who have mentioned you should verify CH's adherence to the
spec. and make sure it is tight adherence versus simply allowing you to connect 50-ohm to what is truly a 75-ohm input
and auto-sensing the different signal characteristics and adapting with some degree or tolerance, i.e. error. My 2 cents...
 

Mike Lavigne

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Hi Mike,

would be nice if you have a photo as sample for better plug in. I remember far away your situation is very tight and your cables are even thicker than mine. My BNC is only similar to the BNC and it is hell. I don‘t understand why the most important input is positioned there.

And you are right: The Cardas don‘t give you the impression they would be unbreakable...

redandgold

here you go. and notice the ground attached on the left side lower picture. you also see the Entreq 'hook' cable on the left (negative) terminal on each side (it's underneath the speaker cables) but don't see the spacer washer on the right (positive) terminal so the Cardas terminal snugs (evenly) properly.

necessity is the mother of invention.

damn Herve'.

zip 1.jpg

zip 2.jpg
 

Kingsrule

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Don't think 468 has changed rear design....
 

MadFloyd

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An update on my strange experience with a zeel cable between my CH P1 and darTZeel 18NS:

I wrote to CH and this is what they said:

"The P1 BNC output can be connected to a Dartzeel preamp no problem. However, you shouldn't engage the 50 Ohms load on the preamp input as you would suffer from reduced low frequencies. Instead, the switch associated to the input should be toggled to the middle position (high impedance).

Out of RCA and BNC, BNC is is also our preferred route. However, CH Precision recommends XLR because you get the benefit of balanced interconnections and because our preamp is fully balanced throughout."


Indeed, I was experiencing a lack of bass. I flipped the switch to the middle position (which on the back of the 18NS points to the RCA inputs) but sure enough it now sounds great.
 
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redandgold

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Jun 3, 2018
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here you go. and notice the ground attached on the left side lower picture. you also see the Entreq 'hook' cable on the left (negative) terminal on each side (it's underneath the speaker cables) but don't see the spacer washer on the right (positive) terminal so the Cardas terminal snugs (evenly) properly.

necessity is the mother of invention.

damn Herve'.

Thank you for the impressive photos. A miracle that you can plug all available cables. I suppose you can‘t unplug the zeel before the speaker cables are gone. Do you have to use cable lifters for the weight? I would fear to break the partly plastic Cardas. Especially if you regularly plug and unplug them by testing amps like the Lamms.

Never seen before the ground cable at your darTZeel chassis. Which function has is? Is it grounded to your Tripoint? Did you have before humming?
 

microstrip

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An update on my strange experience with a zeel cable between my CH P1 and darTZeel 18NS:

I wrote to CH and this is what they said:

"The P1 BNC output can be connected to a Dartzeel preamp no problem. However, you shouldn't engage the 50 Ohms load on the preamp input as you would suffer from reduced low frequencies. Instead, the switch associated to the input should be toggled to the middle position (high impedance).

Out of RCA and BNC, BNC is is also our preferred route. However, CH Precision recommends XLR because you get the benefit of balanced interconnections and because our preamp is fully balanced throughout."


Indeed, I was experiencing a lack of bass. I flipped the switch to the middle position (which on the back of the 18NS points to the RCA inputs) but sure enough it now sounds great.

It seems CH are not complying with the 50 ohm matched impedance concept - if the you suffer from reduced low bass when you engage the 50 ohm input impedance the BNC is just decoration and you should not use DartZeel BNC-BNC cables. Try a good RCA cable - it will probably sound better.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Thank you for the impressive photos. A miracle that you can plug all available cables. I suppose you can‘t unplug the zeel before the speaker cables are gone. Do you have to use cable lifters for the weight? I would fear to break the partly plastic Cardas. Especially if you regularly plug and unplug them by testing amps like the Lamms.

Never seen before the ground cable at your darTZeel chassis. Which function has is? Is it grounded to your Tripoint? Did you have before humming?

yes, the chassis ground is for the Tripoint Troy Signature. it did improve the performance, but there was no noise or hum it solved, more it made the sound more real and articulate. I contacted Herve to ask him where to attach the ground, and he pointed me to that screw.

it was a pain when I had the Lamm ML3's and big VAC's to switch amps, with this plug and terminal set-up. but the worst part was that my room to kneel or squat and do the change was much reduced so it would turn into a real workout to make the switch. but now those other amps are gone.

as far as harming the Cardas speaker terminal, it is quite robust and I've never felt it was at risk.....as I only hand tighten it. I do have cable elevators and they are quite tall to take some of the strain away from the terminals. recently I added the active isolation Taiko Tana below the dart 458's, so my plan is to get more elaborate with my cable elevators across their length to 'unweight' the heavy speaker cables and improve the 'floating' ability of the active isolation.
 

MadFloyd

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It seems CH are not complying with the 50 ohm matched impedance concept - if the you suffer from reduced low bass when you engage the 50 ohm input impedance the BNC is just decoration and you should not use DartZeel BNC-BNC cables. Try a good RCA cable - it will probably sound better.

Your advice contradicts what CH is telling me. I already have good RCA cables and I will compare with an open mind.
 

dandylinpsst

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Jun 12, 2010
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yes, the chassis ground is for the Tripoint Troy Signature. it did improve the performance, but there was no noise or hum it solved, more it made the sound more real and articulate. I contacted Herve to ask him where to attach the ground, and he pointed me to that screw.
Mike, have you tried the latest Dartzeel 50 ohm cable?
My dealer say there are three model ??
Looking forward to your experience!!:)
 

ashandger

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Jun 14, 2013
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Mike, have you tried the latest Dartzeel 50 ohm cable?
My dealer say there are three model ??
Looking forward to your experience!!:)

Just FYI, Michael Fremer raves about the new Dart 50 ohm cable in his 468 amp review...I suspect he received their top BNC model. The review is available online.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Mike, have you tried the latest Dartzeel 50 ohm cable?
My dealer say there are three model ??
Looking forward to your experience!!:)

i do have Herve's original 'zeel' 50 ohm BNC (11 meters of it), between my King Cello tape repro and my dart preamp. so i suppose i could consider upgrading that.

however; my other 50 ohm 'zeel' BNC's (from dac to pre, and from pre to mono blocks) are Evolution Acoustics, which are better than those new cables from Herve. the EA cables are very heavy and stiff, and they are very fine sounding.
 
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ShawnZH

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According to Fremer’s 468, Dartzeel issued a new BNC cable. I consulted the local dealer. They told me there’re 3 models, with 3 levels of diameter: 6mm, 8mm and 10mm. I ordered a pair of 10mm. Wait to see if it works well.

The older version of the Dartzeel BNC cable doesn’t sound well. The sound is thin and lacks a bit of power, compared to XLR with good quality cables. I am now using a “cheap” 50ohm BNC from Sommer. It sounds much better than the old Dartzeel cable. I hope the new 10mm version could beat Sommer.
 
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dandylinpsst

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Jun 12, 2010
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According to Fremer’s 468, Dartzeel issued a new BNC cable. I consulted the local dealer. They told me there’re 3 models, with 3 levels of diameter: 6mm, 8mm and 10mm. I ordered a pair of 10mm. Wait to see if it works well.

The older version of the Dartzeel BNC cable doesn’t sound well. The sound is thin and lacks a bit of power, compared to XLR with good quality cables. I am now using a “cheap” 50ohm BNC from Sommer. It sounds much better than the old Dartzeel cable. I hope the new 10mm version could beat Sommer.
In fact, Dartzeel BNC cable are made by huber+suhner.
Their price is much cheaper than dartzeel.
 

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