Which BNC 50-ohm cable for NHB-108 and NHB-18NS interconnection

[Rob77]

Agreed. As for cable performance I think Herve's own 10mm Zeel is a good choice. Whenever a plug comes into play things may be compromised. With that said Jacob (Absolute Sounds) was using an adapter, and a quick email with Herve also confirmed the need for an adapter to be used (and he did not mention any potential compromise in performance).

The official Zeel cables appear to be H&S and we searched high and low to see if H&S made a BNC/RCA adapter. We were unable to find one - actually there do not seem to be many of any brand on the market.

Ultimately we found these at a whopping $2.24 cost :

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/AIM-Cambridge-Cinch-Connectivity-Solutions/27-8110?qs=dEO1gfb2FsoQhhrXS%2FAHfA%3D%3D

When I read the review on Absolute Sound, I wondered how was he able to connect the Vivaldi (which I own as well) to the DartZeel, I didn' t know adapters of that kind existed.
Following the same approach I had with the pre to amp connection, I am considering making a cable (H&S) and terminate it BNC on one side, RCA on the other, instead of using adapters.

 

[buzzlulu]

Eliminating an adapter can only improve upon things. Unfortunately cable building is beyond my pay grade. Interested in making a second pair as well

The Mouser link in your previous post was to the Italian Mouser website. Are you in Italy by any chance?

 

[Rob77]

Eliminating an adapter can only improve upon things. Unfortunately cable building is beyond my pay grade. Interested in making a second pair as well

The Mouser link in your previous post was to the Italian Mouser website. Are you in Italy by any chance?

Yes, I am in Italy.

 

[buzzlulu]

PM sent

 

[gpu123]

I recently upgraded to the NHB-468 and this thread made me really curious about the Dart to Zeel connection, which I did not consider before, when I owned the NHB-108.
I decided to try building a 50 ohm cable following the indications in this thread.
I used this: SPUMA_400-RS-FR HUBER+SUHNER | Mouser
Connectors are these: https://www.aeco.tw/products/abc-1451?_pos=1&_fid=eb91cf6af&_ss=c

I finished the cable last week and it has been running since then (I am still breaking in the NHB-468).
The conductor is very thick and not easy to fit properly inside the BNC connector. Cable length is 8mt, since I keep my NHB-18NS on the side wall.
As soon as I plugged them in I couldn' t believe the improvement over my Elrod Power systems Statement Gold XLR. Noise level is considerably lower , image is more defined and I heard plenty of subtle nuances I did not know they existed.
I have definitely realised that it is true when they say DartZeel machines are designed to work best with this connection.

A very nice experiment that worked out quite well, and for that I thank you all for the info provided. I will try to demo the original Dart to Zeel cables and compare them. I will report the results.

Rob,

I have some experience building BNC cables primarily because the DZ cables have been good but not great.

It looks like you have found a really good audio quality BNC connector that is worth experimenting with. I have been waiting for Furutech to do a 50 Ohm BNC connector using their NCF product similar to what they have for 75 Ohm digital cables but in my correspondence with them they have no plans to do a 50 Ohm connector. I was not familiar with the Aeco connector but this looks like an excellent connector that may be worth a try. It looks like you searched high and wide to find it.

My findings to date are as follows.
Larger diameter center core conductors are better than smaller conductors which means that larger diameter cables have been better than small cables since the dielectric is affected by the size of the center core conductor.
There is less signal loss so they sound better.

Foam dielectrics are the best since they have the lowest dielectric coefficient and slow propagation speeds the least. However, they can be difficult to work with in tight spaces because they are not very flexible. Having said that, if you can bend them to shape and keep them there they are fine. It's when your are continually bending them or bending them too aggressively that you will damage the dielectric.

A good Cu braided center conductor with Ag coating has been the best center conductor tried to date. This center conductor is also desirable for those who have limited space because they bend very easily but it means you are probably not going to be able to use a foam dielectric.

Geri

 

[buzzlulu]

What material is the conductor of the DarTZeel H&S cable made from - all copper? silver coated copper? I am using the newest 10mm Zeel cable?

 

[gpu123]

What material is the conductor of the DarTZeel H&S cable made from - all copper? silver coated copper? I am using the newest 10mm Zeel cable?

 

[gpu123]

I'm fairly certain it is a Huber & Suhner Spuma 400 RS-FR which has a 2.74 mm braided copper center conductor with a foam dielectric. That would be a very rigid cable with little flex or twist.

 

[Rob77]

I'm fairly certain it is a Huber & Suhner Spuma 400 RS-FR which has a 2.74 mm braided copper center conductor with a foam dielectric. That would be a very rigid cable with little flex or twist.

Correct. 2.74mm copper conductor with foam dielectric. It is fairly rigid.

 

[Rob77]

Rob,

I have some experience building BNC cables primarily because the DZ cables have been good but not great.

It looks like you have found a really good audio quality BNC connector that is worth experimenting with. I have been waiting for Furutech to do a 50 Ohm BNC connector using their NCF product similar to what they have for 75 Ohm digital cables but in my correspondence with them they have no plans to do a 50 Ohm connector. I was not familiar with the Aeco connector but this looks like an excellent connector that may be worth a try. It looks like you searched high and wide to find it.

My findings to date are as follows.
Larger diameter center core conductors are better than smaller conductors which means that larger diameter cables have been better than small cables since the dielectric is affected by the size of the center core conductor.
There is less signal loss so they sound better.

Foam dielectrics are the best since they have the lowest dielectric coefficient and slow propagation speeds the least. However, they can be difficult to work with in tight spaces because they are not very flexible. Having said that, if you can bend them to shape and keep them there they are fine. It's when your are continually bending them or bending them too aggressively that you will damage the dielectric.

A good Cu braided center conductor with Ag coating has been the best center conductor tried to date. This center conductor is also desirable for those who have limited space because they bend very easily but it means you are probably not going to be able to use a foam dielectric.

Geri

Hi Geri, I can confirm the Aeco connector is very well made, and the only one I could find (apart form the cheap "industrial" ones you can commonly find). I have used the 10mm H+S cable, which has a 2.74mm copper conductor. It is very difficult to work with it and requires some adaptation to be able to use those connectors. I also made a cable to connect the Vivaldi dam to the DartZeel preamp, Furutech RCA on the day side and Aeco BNC on the preamp side. Works wonderfully.

Roberto

 

[gpu123]

Hi Geri, I can confirm the Aeco connector is very well made, and the only one I could find (apart form the cheap "industrial" ones you can commonly find). I have used the 10mm H+S cable, which has a 2.74mm copper conductor. It is very difficult to work with it and requires some adaptation to be able to use those connectors. I also made a cable to connect the Vivaldi dam to the DartZeel preamp, Furutech RCA on the day side and Aeco BNC on the preamp side. Works wonderfully.

Roberto

Interesting, I had not considered mixing connectors

 

[Zeotrope]

Hi Geri, I can confirm the Aeco connector is very well made, and the only one I could find (apart form the cheap "industrial" ones you can commonly find). I have used the 10mm H+S cable, which has a 2.74mm copper conductor. It is very difficult to work with it and requires some adaptation to be able to use those connectors. I also made a cable to connect the Vivaldi dam to the DartZeel preamp, Furutech RCA on the day side and Aeco BNC on the preamp side. Works wonderfully.

Roberto

Hi Roberto,
I am about to have someone replace the BNC connectors on the 10mm "DarTZeel" BNC cable with silver RCA connectors. Do you have any suggestions and advice that you can pass on? You mention that it requires some adaptation to work with these cables... thank you in advance.

BTW, at Mouser, this cable (SPUMA_400) costs about $12USD per meter. Plus the H+S BNC connectors at ~$40x4.
I paid $1000 per meter and that was at a big discount from an authorized dealer. WHAT?! That's almost a 100X mark-up. Absoultely insane. When Hervé complains about the pricing issues in the industry, he has only to look within. Absolutely nuts.
Rant over; just had to call it out.

 

[gpu123]

Hi Roberto,
I am about to have someone replace the BNC connectors on the 10mm "DarTZeel" BNC cable with silver RCA connectors. Do you have any suggestions and advice that you can pass on? You mention that it requires some adaptation to work with these cables... thank you in advance.

Roberto,
I am currently traveling, however, prior to leaving town I was working with an H&S cable that I think might be ideal. The cable is about 10.6 mm in diameter but I was not able to modify it adequately so the cable would fit into the AECO BNC (10.5mm diameter maximum I believe).
If you can provide any information on your modifications I'd like to give it another go once I get home.
Thank you,
Geri

Zeotrope,
I don't think modifying that cable with RCA adaptors will be much of a benefit. Please let me know if I am mistaken.
Geri

 

[buzzlulu]

this cable (SPUMA_400)

I remember there being a number of different H&S cables with some questions as to which was the exact model Herve’ has been using. I ordered my 10 mm cables together with the preamp and amp and that is what I am using to connect the two.

A good friend recently ordered the official ones to go between his dCS Rossini and preamp. He is very happy and trying to get me to try a pair. That is difficult right now as a 40th anniversary Siltech silver XLR interconnect arrived one month ago and I am very happy with it.

I had previously posted inquiring about the difference between XLR and RCA between my dCS and preamp. dCS is on record stating XLR outputs of their boxes are measurably and sonically better than RCA. As we all know, Herve prefers RCA inputs however his recommendation to me was to use the XLR input of the pre-amplifier for my Rossini

Before ordering, I had a Siltech 680 XLR cable and 880 RCA cable. In the pecking order, the 880 is a better cable. With that said I preferred the lesser 680 cable to the 880 - that told me the XLR connection was doing something better than the RCA.

As always, your mileage may vary!

 

[Zeotrope]

Zeotrope,
I don't think modifying that cable with RCA adaptors will be much of a benefit. Please let me know if I am mistaken.
Geri

I am switching to a different pre and power amp.
BTW, the pre-amp has very low impedance (<0.2 ohms), obviously much lower than the 50 ohms from 18NS.

 

[Rob77]

Roberto,
I am currently traveling, however, prior to leaving town I was working with an H&S cable that I think might be ideal. The cable is about 10.6 mm in diameter but I was not able to modify it adequately so the cable would fit into the AECO BNC (10.5mm diameter maximum I believe).
If you can provide any information on your modifications I'd like to give it another go once I get home.
Thank you,
Geri

Zeotrope,
I don't think modifying that cable with RCA adaptors will be much of a benefit. Please let me know if I am mistaken.
Geri

Hi Geri,

The big problem is fitting the conductor inside the pin of the Aeco BNC. The only thing I could do was trim it slightly on the sides in order to make it fit. I also had to slightly cut the white insulating material within the connector, to make the pin and the conductor fit.

Unfortunately I did not take any photo when making the cable, otherwise I would have posted them.

Let me know if you need any additional info.

Roberto

 

[Rob77]

I remember there being a number of different H&S cables with some questions as to which was the exact model Herve’ has been using. I ordered my 10 mm cables together with the preamp and amp and that is what I am using to connect the two.

A good friend recently ordered the official ones to go between his dCS Rossini and preamp. He is very happy and trying to get me to try a pair. That is difficult right now as a 40th anniversary Siltech silver XLR interconnect arrived one month ago and I am very happy with it.

I had previously posted inquiring about the difference between XLR and RCA between my dCS and preamp. dCS is on record stating XLR outputs of their boxes are measurably and sonically better than RCA. As we all know, Herve prefers RCA inputs however his recommendation to me was to use the XLR input of the pre-amplifier for my Rossini

Before ordering, I had a Siltech 680 XLR cable and 880 RCA cable. In the pecking order, the 880 is a better cable. With that said I preferred the lesser 680 cable to the 880 - that told me the XLR connection was doing something better than the RCA.

As always, your mileage may vary!

I also have a dCS, Vivaldi Apex, previously connected to the NHB18s via XLR (Elrod master Diamond). I then decided to try making a 50ohm bnc/rca cable to connect the Vivaldi…and it immediately sounded better.

 

[Tabl10s]

I also have a dCS, Vivaldi Apex, previously connected to the NHB18s via XLR (Elrod master Diamond). I then decided to try making a 50ohm bnc/rca cable to connect the Vivaldi…and it immediately sounded better.

If the cable is 50 ohms on the BNC, will it be the same on the RCA?

 

[Zeotrope]

If the cable is 50 ohms on the BNC, still it be the same on the RCA?

Yes, it’s just a different connector, no change to the signal.

 

[buzzlulu]

Any comments about dCS acknowledgment that XLR is the better measuring and sonically superior output on their units?

My post #94 above goes into more detail