Which is Better Sound From High Power: Single Tube SET or Parallel Tube SET?

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,669
10,942
3,515
USA
I now own CAT , neutral high power sound i absolutely love it .

Congratulations. I’m glad you’re happy with your amplifiers. I have a good local friend who has CAT mono blocks and also CH precision mono blocks. I’ve heard them both on what people consider to be very neutral speakers, Magico M Pro. Both sets of amplifiers are described as being high power neutral amplifiers.

They sound very different from each other. Can they both be neutral if they sound so different from each other?
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,256
1,430
450
Not to mess ideals up. But any given amp will sound very different on a given speaker
1- is nom imp
2- imp curve
one way to equate a direct compare is play low
this lets a given amp to have effect of a given speaker
some say amp A is this and amp b that . It maybe true but needs to be in a controlled test.
 

godofwealth

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2022
600
908
108
63
Well...I don’t agree with him... You can get an honest 15 watts from parallel SET 300B. I had JJ322 that was measured in a Polish magazine with 15 watts at 0.8% distortion and that was mostly 2nd harmonic with a nice exponential decay with harmonic order. It was also linear to 35khz thanks to very large double C core output transformers and yet had a nice softness in the highs. That said, it couldn’t really drive many non-horn speakers, unlike my Aries Cerat Genus that drives everything despite being only 5 watts more on paper...in reality they are worlds apart with regard to drive.
Having owned the JJ 322 for the past few months, if there’s a better amp for my Quad 2905s, I haven’t heard it. And I’ve tried a lot of amplifiers over the years. Even my big ARC Ref 210s are sitting idly by glowering at me as I walk past them and turn on the JJ each evening. Power is not everything, not by a long shot. 20 watts is plenty, even with speakers rated at 86 dB. Theoretically, 10 watts into the Quads produces 96 dB at 1 meter. I never listen that loudly anyway. The big ARC has digital bar graph power meters. I’ve rarely seen them go above 10 watts, even when I play at what I consider loud volumes. But that’s me. I do not enjoy listening to music at rock concert volumes or discotheque 120 dB volumes. If you do that routinely, it doesn’t matter what equipment you own, your ears are toast. I have enjoyed listening to quality music for 30+ years, mostly because I’m careful with playback levels. As with everything in life, moderation is the key.
 

andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor
Jan 23, 2011
8,495
2,840
1,400
Amsterdam holland
Congratulations. I’m glad you’re happy with your amplifiers. I have a good local friend who has CAT mono blocks and also CH precision mono blocks. I’ve heard them both on what people consider to be very neutral speakers, Magico M Pro. Both sets of amplifiers are described as being high power neutral amplifiers.

They sound very different from each other. Can they both be neutral if they sound so different from each other?

I guess it all has to do with who is doing the listening .
The worst solid state $ for $ that i heard in munich was Soulution and d agostino , but some give it best of the show best solid state what ever.
The XVX i heard in munich sounded to me artificial / coloured yet other people commented totally different.
The best you can do is follow your own ears and leave the discussion up to others.
There is never going to be a consensus if thats what you re hoping for.
 
Last edited:

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Reports on the use of the so called "grounding devices" are often contradictory. The main point is that the devices change the sound and some people like it.

As often referred, manufacturers of high-end equipment use different type of grounding layouts in their equipment - IMHO it is hard to predict the interaction of the "grounding devices" with a system.
Fair enough and point taken. My personal experiences with different Tripoint ‘ground boxes’ and several Tripoint grounding cables in my (quite different sounding) Genesis 1.1 and Tidal La Assoluta set up’s are very clear and conclusive though: using them resulted always in a significant lower noise floor and one of the (main) benefits (but far from the only benefit!) was always greater (perceived) dynamics! For me that is a very important benefit because all audio systems fall imho (very) short - in comparison to (unamplified) live music - in that regard cq department. And as mentioned before, in several reviews of other ‘grounding devices’ the same experience as regards greater (perceived) dynamics were described.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: matakana

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,646
13,677
2,710
London
Mastersound never make their own transformers, they make you believe that they wound the trannies but the real fact all Mastersounds amps the trannies are Made In China!!

TTG, what speakers are those in your pic? Also what triodes are you using?
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,043
995
Utah
Reports on the use of the so called "grounding devices" are often contradictory. The main point is that the devices change the sound and some people like it.
Or think they like it because of false reports and other mistakes in their setups! In every instance when I cleaned up a setup enough to allow the owner to hear what these boxes were doing they ended removing them.
As often referred, manufacturers of high-end equipment use different type of grounding layouts in their equipment - IMHO it is hard to predict the interaction of the "grounding devices" with a system.
I disagree on this Francisco I hear the exact same effect across the board from these boxes in every system I’ve heard in; with no exceptions and it’s always negative. In fact run a wire from the gear to a metal radiator and you’ll have the same effect for free :)!

david
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Or think they like it because of false reports and other mistakes in their setups! In every instance when I cleaned up a setup enough to allow the owner to hear what these boxes were doing they ended removing them.

I disagree on this Francisco I hear the exact same effect across the board from these boxes in every system I’ve heard in; with no exceptions and it’s always negative. In fact run a wire from the gear to a metal radiator and you’ll have the same effect for free :)!

david
I do not know of course to which ‘grounding devices’ you listened to but someone must be stone deaf not to hear the benefits good ‘grounding’ boxes like Tripoint are bringing to the table.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Golum

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,043
995
Utah
I do not know of course to which ‘grounding devices’ you listened to but someone must be stone deaf not to hear the benefits good ‘grounding’ boxes like Tripoint are bringing to the table.
Your Tripoint was often among them and my thoughts were similar to yours, how deaf one has to be not to hear how destructive they are. Not to mention the ignorance to spend that kind of money in a literal litter box and continue to believe in it!:)

david
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Lagonda and tima

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Your Tripoint was often among them and my thoughts were similar to yours, how deaf one has to be not to hear how destructive they are. Not to mention the ignorance to spend that kind of money in a literal litter box and continue to believe in it!:)

david
What a reassurance to read that there is one clever person active on WBF with such golden (or is it twisted?) ears that he can make such final/absolute judgments regarding a certain piece of audio equipment that is part of a whole audio system belonging to other people. Man, you are really ‘good’ and must be so proud of yourself.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ddk

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,030
1,503
550
Eastern WA
As often referred, manufacturers of high-end equipment use different type of grounding layouts in their equipment - IMHO it is hard to predict the interaction of the "grounding devices" with a system.

Not true. The internal grounding scheme isn’t going to change the fact that these are all tuned antennas.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,807
4,702
2,790
Portugal
Not true. The internal grounding scheme isn’t going to change the fact that these are all tuned antennas.

Every time we connect a piece of gear to a system you are adding a "tuned antenna" ... ;)
Different grounding schemes react differently to noise. And the "grounding devices" are very diverse - some include noise generators.

The real question is that we can't predict how RF noise affects the sound quality of our systems. Too many variables to watch and control.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,030
1,503
550
Eastern WA
Every time we connect a piece of gear to a system you are adding a "tuned antenna" ... ;)
Different grounding schemes react differently to noise. And the "grounding devices" are very diverse - some include noise generators.

The real question is that we can't predict how RF noise affects the sound quality of our systems. Too many variables to watch and control.

No. Adding something that has shielding and rejects noise is not the same as an antenna.

The antennas have repeatable characteristics that everyone keeps claiming.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,807
4,702
2,790
Portugal
No. Adding something that has shielding and rejects noise is not the same as an antenna.

The antennas have repeatable characteristics that everyone keeps claiming.

The shield can work as an antenna - it is why the grounding layout matters. And IMHO the "repeatable characteristics" are not repeatable at all, unless you select the opinions.
 

thomask

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2018
1,623
1,539
275
64
Washington State, US
I've always been told that when you go parallel, you lose some of the SE virtue. Honestly, for years it steered me away from PSE amps. The Evolution 845 completely proved me wrong as I found no issues with a lost SE sonic identity and instead found much more ease to the presentation. I can also say that my favorite overall amp from MastersounD is the Dueventi - a parallel SEP amplifier. It might be the best el34 amplifier I've heard.

I think in either design the overall sound will boil down to how good the transformers are first and foremost.
That is what I found out from using 20 Watts Cayin 300b pp amp.

It also sounds pretty nice with more headroom.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,030
1,503
550
Eastern WA
The shield can work as an antenna - it is why the grounding layout matters. And IMHO the "repeatable characteristics" are not repeatable at all, unless you select the opinions.

No. Please stop the nonsense.

A shield is never an antenna. If a material common to shields is used like an antenna, it is not a shield. And people with kitty litter boxes consistently report similar results.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ddk

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,807
4,702
2,790
Portugal
No. Please stop the nonsense.

A shield is never an antenna. If a material common to shields is used like an antenna, it is not a shield. And people with kitty litter boxes consistently report similar results.


Any conductor can work as an antenna. I am not addressing the function, just the part we usually call the shield in a cable. If you connect the shield of a cable to a radio it will work as an antenna.

When you connect a shielded cable to an improper ground in an apparatus you risk injecting RF noise in the system. It is a known problem in instrumentation when you are measuring extremely weak signals, particularly if they have a very fast rise time.

BTW, I am not interested in semantics, just discussing the technical aspects of the grounding device.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Folsom

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing