Which is Better Sound From High Power: Single Tube SET or Parallel Tube SET?
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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- audio music mastersoundd wavac
You can easily hear this with Aries Cerat amps of the same nominal power. We had until recently also a Diana Integrated, which is nominally 25 watts...just like Genus. It sounded more powerful than Genus on most speakers. There were two main differences; 1) It was using 814 DHTetrodes wired in triode instead of the E280F wired in triode and 2) it had a much bigger power supply and larger output transformers. It basically sounded just as powerful as our Diana Forte at 60 watts. Amazing grunt from a absolutely HUGE SET (120Kg or over 250lbs). Genus sounds more powerful than nearly all other non-Aries Cerat SETs I have heard (perhaps the KR SX is close even though rated at double the Genus power). I imagine the Concero 25s might the ante even further but I haven't heard them (and they are driven by the E280F in triode like Genus...Concero 65s use the 814 in triode). The Concero 65s sound pretty limitless.
And required its own dedicated A/C
i had some Silvaweld OTL monos that tripped the circuit breaker...each one! I had to do sequential startup, blow the breaker then quickly reset it before the huge capacitor banks decharged so the next current inrush was less than the initial...took 3 or 4 tries to get them on...
...great sounding room heaters though...Agreed. I think the driver stage was definitely not as robust as my Aries Cerat and the power supply, while not small (the JJ322 was 42kg) was not in the same league.
Hello Mr Ron i will try to answer your questions:
What is your theory as to why the 50w Kagura sounded more powerful than the 120w 833?
-Amplifier specifications and measurements regarding power rating are not in line whit the reality of Power and Torque what amplifier can deliver when measured by our ears only! Transformers are the chain in this regard the extremely heavy and sophisticated Silver hand wound transformers of Kagura and the extremely heavy cooper hand wound transformers of Mastersound Monos makes them sound more powerful and whit more torque than technically can be measured for instant my old Audio Research Ref 750 monos specification 750 watt was in reality not more powerful than the 50 watt Kaguras to my ears.....
Have you heard the Audio Music 833S Ultima amplifier (made in China by Fang)?
No i didnt.
Did you happen to compare directly in the same system the Mastersound 2 x 845 with the Wavac 833?
I used to own the Wavac 833 monos some years ago but i remember exactly in which music passages which amplifiers reacts how.
This is interesting. I hadn't heard "the driver stage makes the music," before reading this.
I did. I got them on Friday. I posted pictures and some comments over on the SET amp owners thread.
How would you describe the sound? My favorite is Cayin cs-55a in Triode mode El-34. Have you heard the Cayin?
A SET amplifier will probably sound better than the parallel SET amplier with same output rating. I think how the amplifier is designed and manufactured are more important than being SET or parallel SET.
I had a chance to listen some great SET amplifiers for a certain amount of time through the years. The best sounding ones for me are:
Kondo ongaku (it doesn’t need any explanation)
Kondo ongaku special (better dynamics and refinement over regular one)
AN ongaku (sounding totally different than Kondo but still wonderful)
Komuro 212e (very dynamic and lively)
NAF 845se is sounding great regarding the price and needs mentioning here.
For me by far the worst sounding SET amplifier is wavac 833 (All 833 models). I can describe them as congested, thin and unpowerful sounding amplifiers.
Funny because the WAVAC HE805 is one of the best sounding ones I have heard...haven't heard the 833 models...
I have heard unison research 845 set , Audio note UK Set s ( probably parallel set / on very expensive audionote UK speakers ) and several others i cant remember .
From Kondo i have heard their pre amps ( may be also their power amps) cant remember .
It sounds all quit coloured to me without " oumph" which is essential for some " liveability " imo.
I ve owned Zanden 7000 300 B set myself for a couple of years , quit good but without power sound.
I now own CAT , neutral high power sound i absolutely love it .
I would love to give SET my last final shot and go for the LL1 sign ML3 combo , but if i still dont like it im left with a lot of boxes to sell
Ps. I did hear the lamm ML 2 / pre combo back in the day on kharma exquisites at Kharma in breda , it sounded quite good but it didn t stick
From Kondo i have heard their pre amps ( may be also their power amps) cant remember .
It sounds all quit coloured to me without " oumph" which is essential for some " liveability " imo.
I ve owned Zanden 7000 300 B set myself for a couple of years , quit good but without power sound.
I now own CAT , neutral high power sound i absolutely love it .
I would love to give SET my last final shot and go for the LL1 sign ML3 combo , but if i still dont like it im left with a lot of boxes to sell
Ps. I did hear the lamm ML 2 / pre combo back in the day on kharma exquisites at Kharma in breda , it sounded quite good but it didn t stick
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sorry my mistake, I forgot. that Wavac amplifier is a great sounding one. it’s a stereo power amplifier with original ISO TANGO transformers (amplifiers made before 2014). I heard it in different setups through the years and it always made me enjoy the music.
there is also a Wavac 300B stereo power amplifier with original ISO TANGO transformers and it sounds great too. but all the other ones like mono 300B’s and 805’s and other models including 833’s are not good. this is the most polite way to say what I feel about them.
Lamm ML 2.2 is one of best amplifiers I have ever heard. they’re very lush sounding amplifiers. I heard Lamm’s couple of times and more recently at a fellow audiophile’s home along with Kondo ongaku.I would love to give SET my last final shot and go for the LL1 sign ML3 combo , but if i still dont like it im left with a lot of boxes to sell
Ps. I did hear the lamm ML 2 / pre combo back in the day on kharma exquisites at Kharma in breda , it sounded quite good but it didn t stick
by the way my evaluations about amplifiers I mentioned here are based on long time listening on my friends’ systems not on audio shows. there is nothing wrong reaching to a conclusion by listening an amplifier at audio shows but for me former is better.
Mastersound never make their own transformers, they make you believe that they wound the trannies but the real fact all Mastersounds amps the trannies are Made In China!!
FYI…. Mastersound amps don’t wind their own trannies, all Mastersound amps the trannies are made in china!
Of course not but lowering the noisefloor in a (very) significant way - be it through the preamp, loudspeakers, dac, server, cd-transport, etc - increases the perceived dynamics (very) significantly. Started grounding the Wadax reference dac very recently (I am still playing / burning this unit in) and the results are startling in many ways. Btw, I am not the only one who has experienced this phenomenon of (perceived) greater dynamics: you can read in it in several reviews of various grounding devices, Ron.
Reports on the use of the so called "grounding devices" are often contradictory. The main point is that the devices change the sound and some people like it.
As often referred, manufacturers of high-end equipment use different type of grounding layouts in their equipment - IMHO it is hard to predict the interaction of the "grounding devices" with a system.
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