Which one to choose between two 80K$ tube amps?

Solypsa

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I had been happy with Silbatone fitted We 300b made in 40's for 10 years in small space.(4m wide 6m deep 2.5 m high)

But after moving to larger listening room, it does not have enough headroom to drive Lansche 4.1.

I am looking for horn speaker above 105 db/w to work with Silbatone.
Sounds fun! Will be curious to learn about what you choose :)
 
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Empirical Audio

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christoph

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Atmasphere

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my guess is its just a special edition Rick sells - sorta like Cary did with the F1 editions for Upscale Audio
You are correct. IIRC the output tube is made for Rick also.


To be clear, this amp is not an OTL. The patent clearly shows an output transformer (air core, but a transformer nonetheless) and a semiconductor circuit, both of which are used for impedance matching. OTLs have neither; the tubes drive the speaker directly.
 

gian60

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I had Jadis 30,80,200 and 500

500 was the worst.I used with Soundlab A1 but sound was too full in mid bass and roll off
Was in 1992,also in other system of my friend with Apogee Diva was no good

I don't suggest,fantastic look but i suggest to try before to buy
 
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Gregm

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thomask

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I had Jadis 30,80,200 and 500

500 was the worst.I used with Soundlab A1 but sound was too full in mid bass and roll off
Was in 1992,also in other system of my friend with Apogee Diva was no good

I don't suggest,fantastic look but i suggest to try before to buy
Ja500 had worked wonder with B&W Notilus 801 with 15 inch woofers.

Synergy between amp and speaker is important.

I had used DCS Elgar direct without any pre amp.

Without too much heat out of it, i would have lived with it few more years.
 

bonzo75

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I had Jadis 30,80,200 and 500

500 was the worst.I used with Soundlab A1 but sound was too full in mid bass and roll off
Was in 1992,also in other system of my friend with Apogee Diva was no good

I don't suggest,fantastic look but i suggest to try before to buy

Was 30 the best, and the 80?
 
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Atmasphere

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I had Jadis 30,80,200 and 500

500 was the worst.I used with Soundlab A1 but sound was too full in mid bass and roll off
Was in 1992,also in other system of my friend with Apogee Diva was no good

I don't suggest,fantastic look but i suggest to try before to buy
That's not surprising. ESLs have an entirely different operating principle and a voltage source amplifier isn't always the best way to drive them.
 

microstrip

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I had Jadis 30,80,200 and 500

500 was the worst.I used with Soundlab A1 but sound was too full in mid bass and roll off
Was in 1992,also in other system of my friend with Apogee Diva was no good

I don't suggest,fantastic look but i suggest to try before to buy

The Soundlab A1 of the early 90's probably still had the wood frame and the equality spaced ribs - it could easily sound too full in the mid bass. Things improved significantly when they introduced the distributed bass resonance structure.

The A1's had several versions of the crossover along the years (referred as backplates), some optimized for solid state, others also for tubes. Current PX models with the Torroid II can be used with either type of amplifier with success - the VTL Siegfried II or the Lamm M1.2 are an excellent match. The A1 crossover has adjustments for bass, medium and treble.
 
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BruceD

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I had Jadis 30,80,200 and 500

500 was the worst.I used with Soundlab A1 but sound was too full in mid bass and roll off
Was in 1992,also in other system of my friend with Apogee Diva was no good

I don't suggest,fantastic look but i suggest to try before to buy

Sad to say I have to agree with G here--having owned( struggled ) with 7Jadis units both Power /Pre and Digital since the early 90s'-

and would advise all prospective buyers to tread carefully-I had transformer failures/ Amps shutting down plus lousy service and backup.

I too drove Soundlab A1's and A3's-similar sonics as G above experienced even after the Transformer mods--Good but not great combo:(

The 150 monos ( my last )tho showed promise into my Avalon Ascent IIs--remember Winston Ma liked these as well earlier on!

Jadis is an excellent product that has seemingly suffered from adverse agents and tech backup with all except possibly the Asian and UK regions--

but need the entire network to maintain and service --I sincerely hope they can progress today with this in mind.

BruceD
 
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gian60

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I had A1 driven with Ja 500 but cut at 100 hz and sub Mono Soundlab B1 driven by 2 pair bridged Mark Levinson N20,400 watt bridge instead 100 watt with crossover ML LNC 2 mono
I had Pre ML 6 B and N 20 mono and asked to Mark Glazier of ML to do also for me LNC2 mono and they did
Could be the only one made because always did stereo
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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There are two interesting 80K$ tube amps on sale at Audiogon.

View attachment 66011

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9jhj0-david-berning-co-211-845-otl-tube

The first one is David Berning OTL design with output of 60 Watts.

it looks beautiful. But I had never used OTL amp yet.

I am curious how it sounds with high efficiency speaker.

View attachment 66012

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...chassis-best-ever-made-nos-new-old-stock-tube

The second one is Jadis JA800 with 6 pieces and 400watts.

I had used JA500 (only 4 pieces with 350 Watts) from 2000 to 2002 to drive B&W Notilus 801 with utmost authority and unbelievable slam.

It was kind of lifetime experience to own this beautiful and overbearing monster.

But I could not use it during summer time in modest size room.

Thus I let it go and got Silbatone 300B SET amp to drive efficient full range speaker.

350 Watt to 8 Watt

If you have money or hit the Jackpot, which one will you go for?

I think you made the right choice to go with the Silbatone SET and Lansche speakers...I am sure that is a great sounding combo.
 

morricab

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After having lived with JA500 for 2 years, i may not go back to it due to too much heat out of it.

But I would like to have a chance to audition David Berning OTL some day.
THe Berning is not a true OTL, FWIW.
 

morricab

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That's not surprising. ESLs have an entirely different operating principle and a voltage source amplifier isn't always the best way to drive them.
Yes, and I found that my STAX ELS F-81s I had back in the day worked wonders with an amp that sounded too warm and mushy into other speakers I tried it on (Golden Tube Audio SE100, which was not a SET despite the SE in the name). It did sound pretty good on the Infinity IRS Beta panels though (no bass of course). That STAX/GTA combo was spooky good. They also sounded very good with a KR Audio VA350i.
 

Rick Brown

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i'm skeptical the 211/845 ZOTL Berning mono blocks Rick Brown brought to my room for me to listen to were a 'one-off's'. there was nothing half-way or compromised about them.

i suppose it's possible. that would be inconsistent with my discussions with Rick. but i don't personally know other owners of those amps.

i was certainly impressed, and if i had horns or a much smaller room with a very efficient speaker system they would be on my very short list of amplifiers.
Greetings Mike,

Thank you for your comments. You are indeed correct. I brought you the first production pair of amplifiers after Gary Ko of Genesis visited me in my Carlsbad, Ca demonstration room and was suitable impressed. I then contacted you and brought the amplifiers to your room. The reason was very clear, you are an important opinion leader. Your audition and feedback of the amplifier brought immediate improvements, like the binding post change I am sure you remember.

A revised pair then went to the Absolute Sound and Robert Harley who did two reviews on the amplifiers. I had sufficient stock when the first review was published to meet the demand, and I continue to have sufficient stock for immediate shipment.

David Berning's brilliant ZOTL circuit and switch-mode power supply remains the technical reason we can offer a 211 or 845 switchable OTL. There isn't another to my knowledge. And for the past three years, Steve Mc Cormack of SMc Audio has joined the design team working with David Berning to bring my amplifier visions to commercial fruition.

Bottom-line the amplifiers I brought for you to audition have been in production since their introduction in Munich 2015. They are in the systems of clients worldwide. Many industry professionals have experienced the amplifiers in client systems, Munich, Newport Beach, and my Carlsbad, CA demonstration room. Enthusiastic recommendations and auditions fuel my direct to client sales model. There are no dealers or country distributors involved. Every owner knows me and most have met me in their homes domestically and internationally.

In closing:

a. The amplifiers are now in the second iteration and are co-branded Hi-Fi One edition. I have no idea how at least one member of this forum came to believe the 211/845 Berning OTL was a "one-off". That statement is simply false.

b. I invite the members of this forum to "clear the air" directly with me.

Again, I thank you Mike.

Rick Brown
Hi Fi One
 

Gregadd

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Many have suggested that the output transformer is the bane of tube amplifiers. One approach is of course to make the best output transformer you can. The other is to do away with output transformer altogether. I promise you David knows more about amps than making an OTL.
There are others who think amps are mostly about clean power. The more the better.
I really have never been an advocate of big inefficient box speakers. Although there are some good ones. If you have one then you need something like the Jadis or the Atmasphere. Steve uses a 32wpc to drive his Wilsons in a large room to astonishingly loud levels.
I think Jadis utilizes basic technology to a high level. David Berning is a pioneer pushing the envelope of design.
In the end it is always the sound that matters.
 
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Gregadd

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atmasphere_ma2mk31.jpg
 
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audiopie

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I rarely post on forums, especially to voice an opinion (I'm more apt to ask a question) But I feel I need to jump in on this one.
I don't know or really understand the differences between what some call a true OTL and the ZOTL circuit used by David Berning in the 211/845 monoblock amps (and I don't really care). But, I have owned the Gen1 version of these fine amps for about 14 months and have just traded them in for the Gen2 HiFi One edition. WOW!
Let me say this again.... WOW!

These do NOT sound like your typical, colored tube amp. The Gen 2 amps are a major sonic upgrade over the Gen 1 amps. I have them paired with Tidal Contriva G2's, and while this pairing sounds great, I feel that I'm leaving things on the table, sonically, and plan to move to a more sensitive speaker to extract the full potential of the Berning amps. Robert Harley was correct in his assesment that these are "the most beautiful sounding amps", and also correct that you need to pair them with the right speaker. I could more easily have decided to keep the speakers and get some solid state amps to pair with the Tidals, (watts are cheap) but the Berrning amps are gems and I will build around them instead.
Oh, btw, Rick Brown is one of the finest audio dealers I have yet had the pleasure to deal with. No one will work harder to help you reach "Audio Nirvana".
crawling back in my hole now...
 

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