Why negative reviews can be unethical and misleading: 10audio.com

[Kingrex]

If there are only a few bad reviewers, why don't the majority of honest reviewers band together? Then very openly and publicly call them out. Not only call them out, but use the new government mandate talked about in some other threads to leverage criminal charges if possible.

Continued silence and a unwillingness to publicly call these people out calls to question?????? Honor amoung thieves? Why not call them out? Afraid to loose your job. Well then, all the major magzines are crooked. Their not????? Then call them out. Quit hiding their identity. 15 of you know. 100,000 don't. How is your buddy buddy click of silence helping anything.

A new thread titled dishonest audio reviewers or pay to play audio reviews or something should be started .

Maybe the reason not too is pressure from the major players that do pay threatening to end their add $$$.

 

[JiminGa]

Why do people put such stock in audio reviewers opinions? Why do they put stock in Robert Parker’s opinions about wine? Why do they go into a store with a list of his highest rated wines and choose what HE likes? Because they want to be associated with having the “best” even though it’s not organic to them. They WANT to be told what to like and to have objective measures (like point scales or the number of reviews/awards garnered) so that they can be compared favorably to others or have something to aspire to. They want a simple order to things. Parker’s tasted more wines than I ever will, has miles more knowledge and is an expert blind taster. Problem is I don’t share his tastes- at all. No one can tell you what you like and they shouldn’t tell you what you should like.If they can describe taste/sound accurately hopefully you will understand what that might mean for you. This can be helpful in determining what to audition/drink. You can refine your tastes over time with experience but refinement leads to many different destinations. One poster referred to those who didn’t share his tastes as “novices “ as if all right thinking people feel one way. I reject this utterly. Good reviewers ,to me, use consistent language which helps me understand some aspect of the gear which I might like or might not. They never “rank” things for me and I would NEVER buy anything because someone else likes it. Bad reviews and good reviews are the same for me in this respect. The actual sound of the product is only relevant in the context of your own system for your own tastes.

 

[Kingrex]

Why do people put such stock in audio reviewers opinions? Why do they put stock in Robert Parker’s opinions about wine? Why do they go into a store with a list of his highest rated wines and choose what HE likes? Because they want to be associated with having the “best” even though it’s not organic to them. They WANT to be told what to like and to have objective measures (like point scales or the number of reviews/awards garnered) so that they can be compared favorably to others or have something to aspire to. They want a simple order to things. Parker’s tasted more wines than I ever will, has miles more knowledge and is an expert blind taster. Problem is I don’t share his tastes- at all. No one can tell you what you like and they shouldn’t tell you what you should like.If they can describe taste/sound accurately hopefully you will understand what that might mean for you. This can be helpful in determining what to audition/drink. You can refine your tastes over time with experience but refinement leads to many different destinations. One poster referred to those who didn’t share his tastes as “novices “ as if all right thinking people feel one way. I reject this utterly. Good reviewers ,to me, use consistent language which helps me understand some aspect of the gear which I might like or might not. They never “rank” things for me and I would NEVER buy anything because someone else likes it. Bad reviews and good reviews are the same for me in this respect. The actual sound of the product is only relevant in the context of your own system for your own tastes.

I know nothing about wine so the splurb on a card and points influence my purchase.

 

[JiminGa]

Ha! Now you understand why people listen to reviewers.

 

[Lee]

Too many people here are completely dismissing reviewers but many of them are qualified to have an informed opinion. They see a ton more gear than the average consumer. And they have more insights into technology because they talk to equipment designers and visit manufacturers.

My advice is to read reviews and a find a reviewer you believe is credible and has views that match your own experience. Use the reviews to create a short list to audition.

It’s a subjective hobby. No one is perfect. But most reviewers I know are decent, methodical people trying to guide folks to better sound.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

I've been saying this for years—it's clear the general audiophile community is starting to notice the tactics and trends in product reviews. Many have faced significant disappointment after purchasing products solely based on reviews. This repeated frustration has caused people to lose trust. While this doesn't mean all reviewers are part of some grand conspiracy, it's quite apparent that many seem to operate with hidden agendas.

 

[Urbinator]

Hi guys, I have always shown an interest in a review, and if it is something I am looking to buy, this may give me more insight. But I do not purchase blind. I will visit the dealership and listen, take their advice, and eventually audition at home with my own equipment and room.
A review is no more than notes; the dealership's advice and what I hear influence my purchases. The dealership is the most crucial part, and having a good relationship with one with good integrity is paramount, not what somebody says in an article. That's more entertainment and an opinion, which occasionally may not align with my experience.

 

[Jack Pot]

As consumers, we fortunately have very, very different tastes.
Visit shows. Visit dealers. Trust your ears. Enjoy the journey.
Above all, make sure that when you listen to a demo, basic requirements regarding power cords and bases have been fulfilled. Most gear today is so neutral and transparent that it will reveal (rather upsetting) flaws in the gear set-up. Some dealers are even prepared to do home demos for substantial purchases.
I must admit that an indifferent review of gear I bought bothers me. Then I listen to my system and smile.

 

[tima]

I would like to see comparative reviews. ... I have no expectations that the reviewing industry will do something like this, so I read very few reviews now and why I prefer to read hobbyists’ opinions.

No manufacturer will loan out a component solely for the purpose of using it as comparator. Competent coverage of two products is basically two reviews in one -- to my knowlege no one does this. It would be very lengthy.

I have not counted but cannot remember the last time one of my equipment reviews did not have a comparison. Lacking a backroom stable of gear sitting around, I use whatever I have on hand, typically what is in my current system.

Shameless tout, here are a few examples from over the years; comparisons come just before the conclusion:

2006: Atma-Sphere M60 compared to Conrad-Jonson Premier 140

SoundStage! Equipment Review - Atma-Sphere M-60 Mk III Mono Amplifiers (6/2006)

2010: ARC Reference 2 compared to ARC PH7 and Atma-Sphere MP-1

The Audio Beat - Audio Research Reference Phono 2 Phono Stage

read audio reviews, ratings, and user opinions on audio equipment before you buy an audio system

www.theaudiobeat.com

2021: Lamm LP2.1 compared to Audio Research Ref 10 Phono

Lamm Industries LP2.1 Deluxe Phono Preamplifier - Positive Feedback

Lamm Industries LP2.1 Deluxe Phono Preamplifier

positive-feedback.com

2023: Wof von Langa SON compared to Wilson Alexia 2

Wolf von Langa WVL 12639 SON LoudspeakerWolf von Langa WVL 12639 SON Loudspeaker System - Positive Feedback

Wolf von Langa WVL 12639 SON Loudspeaker System

positive-feedback.com

I am paid a pittance $50-$150 for a review by my publisher -- who does so in order to own the copy -- and I've never received a cent from anyone else for a review. The only perk I get is the same as anyone in the industry: accommodation pricing on a purchase.

 

[PeterA]

Tim, I have read most of your Lamm reviews and they are excellent. You describe what you hear and I do appreciate the comparisons with the gear you have on hand. Some other reviewers do some of those comparisons too. I would like to see more of it, but ultimately I would like to read comparisons to live music.

 

[Kingsrule]

I've been saying this for years—it's clear the general audiophile community is starting to notice the tactics and trends in product reviews. Many have faced significant disappointment after purchasing products solely based on reviews. This repeated frustration has caused people to lose trust. While this doesn't mean all reviewers are part of some grand conspiracy, it's quite apparent that many seem to operate with hidden agendas.

It goes back to HP and TAS. It was always discussed that to get a positive review a long term (basically permanent) loan and a expensive dinner (lots of First Growths) were necessary.

 

[PeterA]

It goes back to HP and TAS. It was always discussed that to get a positive review a long term (basically permanent) loan and a expensive dinner (lots of First Growths) were necessary.

And then the glossary of audio file terms. When I used to read reviews with some of these terms thrown in, I knew instantly it was not a product I wanted in my system. Maybe that is reading between the lines. After all the absolute sound is referring to live music, and I never hear some of those terms when I listen to live music. I guess there are negative reviews out there. They are just nicely covert.

 

[Lee]

It goes back to HP and TAS. It was always discussed that to get a positive review a long term (basically permanent) loan and a expensive dinner (lots of First Growths) were necessary.

That’s not how TAS operates today.

 

[adrianywu]

You mention names as examples of integrity but how would anyone really know unless (s)he has had direct experience submitting product for review? I have direct experience. Now, I won't share any stories but will say that some are more adept at hiding their perks better than others.

Why do people put such stock in audio reviewers opinions? Why do they put stock in Robert Parker’s opinions about wine? Why do they go into a store with a list of his highest rated wines and choose what HE likes? Because they want to be associated with having the “best” even though it’s not organic to them. They WANT to be told what to like and to have objective measures (like point scales or the number of reviews/awards garnered) so that they can be compared favorably to others or have something to aspire to. They want a simple order to things. Parker’s tasted more wines than I ever will, has miles more knowledge and is an expert blind taster. Problem is I don’t share his tastes- at all. No one can tell you what you like and they shouldn’t tell you what you should like.If they can describe taste/sound accurately hopefully you will understand what that might mean for you. This can be helpful in determining what to audition/drink. You can refine your tastes over time with experience but refinement leads to many different destinations. One poster referred to those who didn’t share his tastes as “novices “ as if all right thinking people feel one way. I reject this utterly. Good reviewers ,to me, use consistent language which helps me understand some aspect of the gear which I might like or might not. They never “rank” things for me and I would NEVER buy anything because someone else likes it. Bad reviews and good reviews are the same for me in this respect. The actual sound of the product is only relevant in the context of your own system for your own tastes.

Robert Parker has been a great help to me. I have pretty much the opposite taste, which is to eschew overly ripe, opulent, jammy wines and opt for delicate, complex and subtle flavors. Therefore, I would choose wines that have a low RP score to taste, and buy those that I like. This is because low scores mean more reasonable prices !

 

[alexatpos]

Few days ago, random 'audiophile' page showed on my fb, so I took a short look. Reading further and to my surprise, I found that above mentioned 'review' of Atmasphere d class amps and bellow many comments from the author of page, where he uses that review as a 'proof' to his claims that all d class sounds bad and Atmas in particular. I could not resist and wrote a comment, simply saying that 'review' in question has a background story, since long time ago and that evidence to that could be found on few forums where Ralph participates. Further more, I wrote, I would not comment if (you) ,the original owner of that page, simply stated your personal opinion, even if you conclude the same. Everybody has a right to have opinion and different taste. To my bigger surprise, the Fb page creator answered angrily, bashing Atmasphere and Ralph and as conclusion wrote that I too must own a d class amp. Of course, after I answered, he deleted my posts and blocked me. Its a boring weekend, so I choose to search more about that character and voila, I found that he is mentioned here as well, in Ralphs initial post. Also, he is a member here, goes by name Synaxis. These are some of his quotes, from his you tube post, where he uses that same 'review' as 'point' to 'proof' how bad sounding Atmas are and in the same time pretending to be most ethical of all existing reviewers. Astonishing level of hypocrisy. So, in case he choose to delete his comments again, here are some of his quotes...even more on fb, but cant post it here

' he sure does rub a lot of people the wrong way on the forums with his condescending posts regarding tube amps and their "inferiority" to Class D. Just reading the reactions to his posts makes that clear. Also, the fact he stated on the forum yesterday that "negative reviews are unethical" doesn't really paint him as "one of the good guys".He never missed the opportunity to lecture someone on why and how tube amps are inferior.'

Have you ever asked to explain what he means?

'I have asked him. Repeatedly. Then I gave up as it wasn't worth dealing with him especially after I witnessed how others were getting treated by him as well and what he was saying.'

link

This is only my third post here. My prime interest is jazz music, not much of it here, so I participate on Ag.I do not believe that I ever wrote a post like this and perhaps the only reason I did it is because I very much appreciate the writings of Mr. Karsten, I learned a lot over the years. Never even heard any of his stuff but I really hate to see when some 'nobody' tries to gain something ( few cheap cliks) by bashing other people good name. Also, I hate to give any attention to that clown, but at least you know with whom you are dealing

 

[Synaxis]

To my bigger surprise, the Fb page creator answered angrily, bashing Atmasphere and Ralph and as conclusion wrote that I too must own a d class amp. Of course, after I answered, he deleted my posts and blocked me. Its a boring weekend, so I choose to search more about that character and voila, I found that he is mentioned here as well, in Ralphs initial post. Also, he is a member here, goes by name Synaxis. These are some

Hi Alex,

I welcome all kinds of opinions on my FB page.

I remember your post very clearly and the very um, shall we say challenging responses others on the page responded to you with. You did not play nice with them. I actually had people hitting the "report" button on your posts.

I do find your altered recollection of your post and my response entertaining and appreciate you posting a link to my video here.

Your post here shows the very problem you had on my FB page - you can't handle people who have a differing opinion than you.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Doc76]

Good reviews can be just as unethical - if not more so.

 

[Rob181]

Good reviews can be just as unethical - if not more so.

To the reader - most likely - to the manufacturer - absolutely not.

 

[alexatpos]

Hi Alex,

I welcome all kinds of opinions on my FB page.
,
I remember your post very clearly and the very um, shall we say challenging responses others on the page responded to you with. You did not play nice with them. I actually had people hitting the "report" button on your posts.

I do find your altered recollection of your post and my response entertaining and appreciate you posting a link to my video here.

Your post here shows the very problem you had on my FB page - you can't handle people who have a differing opinion than you.

Merry Christmas!

Hi back to you, Mike
You have my permission to post those posts from fb, that you have deleted.
I do not have 'problem' with opinions that are different than mine, in fact, in this matter, I dont have opinion at all, since I never heard the Atmas amps in question.
Neither you should, (have an opinion) since you obviously did not listen to those Atmas amps too, since you are using others people thoughts to 'prove' your opinion. To paraphrase you, 'Many others reviewers heard them and you are just sharing their views in support of your 'theory' that all d class is bad sounding, that nobody who ever heard Atmas had a good opinion about it and that only corrupted reviewers could write something positive about it. Finally, Mr. Karsten 'attacks' people who dare to express different opinion and so on'..but, in the sam time, you are there to 'solve' any doubts anybody might have, since you care about nothing else but truth...
So yes, I have a 'problem', when someone like you, in a very obvious and blatant way tries to 'gain' some attention (I really do hate that I am giving it even more by doing this) by manipulating the facts and spreading false information and by smearing someone's good reputation and in the same time pretending to have high moral and etic standards.
Finally, as I have wrote before, if you have just wrote your own opinion about that product (or any other) I would not mind, no matter what you think. But, obviously, you have very different agenda on your mind...

 

[tima]

Your post here shows the very problem you had on my FB page - you can't handle people who have a differing opinion than you.

Do you own all the equipment you showed in your video "Why You Need To LIE in High End Audio Reviews" ?