XiTron Alpha Digital Power Cord

[Steve williams]

I see - the current draw comes from the fan. I guess it would work. Strictly of academic interests, since I have no intention of spending $250, but good to know nonetheless.

\

forget the $250.

Caelin says it can void your warranty

Whatever happened to good old fashioned burn in

 

[Kingsrule]

Just look at the specs for both on the Shunyata web site. Both contain CDA 101 Copper w 10 gauge conductors.

Doesn't mean its the basis for the Alpha
Actually only means the copper is the same...

 

[jap]

\

forget the $250.

Caelin says it can void your warranty

Whatever happened to good old fashioned burn in

If a 1W peak signal can damage SR products, why would you want to use them with your amps which draw 400 Watts @ rated output and idle?

 

[Steve williams]

If a 1W peak signal can damage SR products, why would you want to use them with your amps which draw 400 Watts @ rated output and idle?

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...tal-Power-Cord&p=237081&viewfull=1#post237081

 

[microstrip]

If a 1W peak signal can damage SR products, why would you want to use them with your amps which draw 400 Watts @ rated output and idle?

Amps draw power at 50 Hz - a very slow signal. Caelin is addressing high frequency signals - probably they risk saturating the materials that are used in the cables, making them less efficient for future noise trapping.

 

[MylesBAstor]

\



Whatever happened to good old fashioned burn in

1. Something like the Cable Cooker has improved the sound of every IC or speaker cable or PC that I've tried it with (BTW, aren't your Nordost pre-burned in on the Vidar?). That's been proven to my satisfaction on over 12 different cables to date comparing either cables that are new out of the box with Cable Cooker to burned-in cables or conventionally burned-in cables compared to Cable Cooker treated cables.

2. Do you want to run a couple of hundred hours off your tubes burning say a speaker cable in?

3. Tonearm wires may actually never burn-in using conventional methods.

 

[CGabriel]

Seems like he's making this statement based on the FryCord's specs and hasn't done any actual testing.

TESTING: How about over 15 years of testing with every cable burn-in device that was available. I have personally burned-in hundreds of cables of all types including interconnects, speaker cabkes and power cables. As I said in the previous post, these devices are helpful for interconnects and somewhat helpful for speaker cables. They cannot fully burn in a power cable because the device output is too low in current capacity. But, this is just my opinion based upon my years of experience. You can do as you wish, of course. You seem to have some strongly held beliefs about your frycooker that I respectfully disagree with especially regarding its eficacy with power cords.

I purchased one of the first Cable Cookers produced many years ago from Alan Kafton. I still have it and use it for burning in interconnects. I also use the burn in device made by Nordost. Furthermore, we have created a custom burn-in device to burn-in speaker cables since they require more current than commercial devices can provide.

Power cables will burn-in just fine, over time, without any special device. A fan will simply accelerate that process for those that are impatient.

 

[MylesBAstor]

TESTING: How about over 15 years of testing with every cable burn-in device that was available. I have personally burned-in hundreds of cables of all types including interconnects, speaker cabkes and power cables. As I said in the previous post, these devices are helpful for interconnects and somewhat helpful for speaker cables. They cannot fully burn in a power cable because the device output is too low in current capacity. But, this is just my opinion based upon my years of experience. You can do as you wish, of course. You seem to have some strongly held beliefs about your frycooker that I respectfully disagree with especially regarding its eficacy with power cords.

I purchased one of the first Cable Cookers produced many years ago from Alan Kafton. I still have it and use it for burning in interconnects. I also use the burn in device made by Nordost. Furthermore, we have created a custom burn-in device to burn-in speaker cables since they require more current than commercial devices can provide.

Power cables will burn-in just fine, over time, without any special device. A fan will simply accelerate that process for those that are impatient.

The new CC is different than the one you have I believe Caelin. I also think it has more output eg a bigger built in amp and a different sweep but Alan might be the better one to comment.

 

[CGabriel]

The new CC is different than the one you have I believe Caelin. I also think it has more output eg a bigger built in amp and a different sweep but Alan might be the better one to comment.

I am aware of that and not disputing the fact that some cable burn-in devices can be beneficial, just that they are not required to burn-in a power cable. After the power cable is taken off the burner it will change in character once it is inserted into the system and starts to adapt to its specific current load of the component that is connected to. But, hey if you think it improves the sound quality and the change is sustained over time then go for it. In my own experience, over time, the cables migrate back to the sound qualities before the treatment. Perhaps this is why some recommend that the treatment be repeated regularly.

My primary objection is about injecting square-waves with harmonics up to 100Khz into a power conditioner that is designed to filter out such frequencies. It would certainly be unwise to do so with a power regenerator and could cause it to become unstable and oscillate. It is also not at all helpful to do so into a passive conditioner since those square-waves are going to be sinked by the filters in the conditioner, which would neutralize any potential benefit of the signal.

Could it damage an active conditioner? Definitely. Could it do so to a passive unit? Not likely, but if the signal is sustained long enough it could exceed the thermal capacity of a filter if enough power is applied. And again, what is the goal? To what effect?

If you want to use a burn-in device then do so. This is the Shunyata forum and the title of the thread is about the XiTron Alpha cable. So, i believe that I am entitled to an opinion on the matter in the context of this thread. If people want to continue talking about burn-in devices perhaps it would be appropriate to start a different thread?

 

[CGabriel]

Dear Mr.Gabriel:

First, the HagTech devise is a FryCorder not a "frycooker."

I'm sure you've tested lots cable burn-in devices,but I'm now absolutely sure you haven't tested a HagTech FryCorder, and are in no position to state that "Regarding the Frycorder: The use of this device could void your warranty."

The HagTech FryCorder puts out few volts and tens of mA signal at high frequency that is modulated and swept from low frequencies. The signal is constantly changing with a strong random components and never dwells at 100kHz, so I don't how this low amperage signal could damage your massive MPDA filters or PCs.

Finally, once again where can I find a copy of your SR warranty?

YITF,

JP

Look you can continue to restate your opinion and I could restate mine. So what? I am not trying to change your mind. You have not changed mine. I am simply informing the readers (obviously not you) of how to effectively burn-in a power cord.

 

[CGabriel]

Hello everyone......Myles asked me to join in and comment, and especially to correct any misinformation. I read through every post on the 7 pages of commentary to be certain I didn't miss anything of note. It seems there is, indeed, a good deal of misinformation regarding the audiodharma Cable Cooker's output signal and overall capability. So if you will kindly indulge me, I'll do my best to both inform, correct, and dispel such misinformation point-by-point.

Firstly, the Cable Cooker's output signal combines high voltage, high current, plus a swept square wave covering the range of 0 DC to just a hair over 40Khz. This steady-state signal outputs 125 mA on the low-level circuit (for interconnects) and approx. 1.9 Amperes on the high-level circuit (for speaker cables & power cables). The Cable Cooker utilizes an outboard 12V / 2.5A universal switching power supply. Steady-state voltage output measures out at approx. 11.8V on the low-level circuit and 11.4V on the high-level circuit.

The high-level circuit is also used for various audio transformers and all manner of high-quality capacitors such as Audience Auricaps, Dueland CAST, Jupiter's, Mundorf's, and V-Caps (the Teflon varieties as well). And not to be remiss, the Cable Cooker does an outstanding job on a host of passive AC line conditioners, including Audience (they pre-condition theirs before shipping), Acoustic Revive, Audio Magic, BPT, Isoclean, Oyaide, Running Springs, Sound Application, Synergistic Research (they pre-condition theirs as well), and yes, even various models of Shunyata.

To further elucidate the swept square wave's capabilities (per jap's comments re: "frequency. The higher the better."), please note that while the upper frequency is calibrated (via oscilloscope) to just over 40Khz, this calibration does not take into account the harmonics that reach into the megahertz. The "higher the better" indeed.

To "edorr", a slight correction to your statement ("The cooker probably generates high frequency at low voltage."), and "microstrip" ("cooker generate only low voltage pulses".) As you read above, the Cable Cooker delivers a high-voltage, high-current steady-state signal, in addition to the wide-frequency swept square wave. There is no low voltage option, and the signal does not pulse....it's steady-state. The output signal is vastly different in content from Jim Hagerman's fine products and Nordost's VIDAR and other dealer-operated cable conditioning device.

And edorr....since you indicate you are a Cable Cooker owner, please try one of your Shunyata Alpha's on the unit. You will probably enjoy the results. I would recommend at least 4 days of conditioning (presuming the cable is new), plus perhaps another 24 hours of conditioning after you've listened for a few days. Your ears will tell you what's best.

There are NO high-end cable burn-in devices that I am aware of that have enough current output to properly burn-in power cables. And yes, I have tried them all. We have considered building a device specifically for PCs but the fan seems to do the trick.

While Caelin is stating his personal/professional experience (with which I shall not argue), his implication / admonition regarding current output is simply not correct. Since version 2.0, the audiodharma Cable Cooker has ALWAYS outputted a steady-state signal consisting of 1.9 Amperes of current (on its high-level circuit), and this level remains so today with version 3.5, six generations down the road. This high-level output is equivalent to 22 watts of power, certainly much higher than the "watt of power or less" that Caelin states in his post about "these devices". We achieve an equivalent one watt of power on the "low-level" interconnect circuit, however, quite sufficient for runs of up to 2400 feet of line-level cabling (as proven a couple of years ago in a California recording studio). Additionally, a few manufacturers regularly pre-condition long spools of heavy gauge speaker cable, anywhere from 250 feet to 500 feet long.

Further, countless numbers of cable manufacturers all over the world have been successfully using the unit to condition not just one power cable, but daisy-chaining multiples, sometimes two dozen simultaneously. Many of them are very well known, and advertise both online and in various audiophile print magazines. As most of the sales over 14 years have been to individuals, most customers usually order multiple 15-amp "extension" adaptors for just this purpose. I also offer 20-amp IEC adaptors and extension adaptors for daisy-chaining 20-amp cables.

Of interest: depending on the gauge of the conductors and amount(s) of dielectric materials, the conditioning times usually vary from 4 days (for 14-gauge) to 6 days (10-gauge). Heavier gauge geometries sometimes take a bit longer. And per the FAQ page, I always recommend Cooking-and-listening tests to determine the most effective conditioning time. But simply put, a fan is simply no match for the Cooker's steady-state output signal, especially from a qualitative and musical perspective.

Caelin owns one of 5 original prototype Cable Cookers, built approximately 14 years ago....he was one of the professionals I consulted during the initial design and test period, and in fact helped contribute to the idea of using custom adaptors for power cable conditioning, for which I am quite thankful. But that original prototype was superceded by versions 2.0 through version 3.5....fully six generations of circuitry now beyond the original. I am not aware if he has tested or used any other version other than the original prototype.

There is no question that Shunyata makes very fine products, and their longevity and sales around the world prove that very point. But on the subject of power cable conditioning and the Cable Cooker's overall capability, Caelin's comments are incorrect.

Thank you all for taking the time to read my response.

alan m. kafton

I believe that jap was promoting the use of the FryCorder for power cable and power conditioner and in-wall wiring burn-in. I don't know why he it felt it necessary to drag your product into the argument.

You make a fine product and I recommend it to people when they want a burn-in device. The Cable Cooker's output current is commendable and far above the Frycorder which was the subject of the conversation. Even so, 1.9 amps is nowhere near the 5-10 amps of current that a typical high-current cord can draw when used on a power conditioner or amplifier. If someone buys a burn-in device and wants to use it on a power cord - go for it. However, it is certainly not needed nor required to fully burn-in a power cord. Interconnects and speaker cables are a different story as I have said repeatedly.

My objection has been and continues to be the insertion of high frequency square waves into a power conditioner. Do you recommend running your cable cooker into a power conditioner or live wall wiring?

 

[amirm]

Everyone, let's keep this thread focused on Shunyata's products. Burn-in arguments in general should go into their own thread. Let's make sure our industry people stay here and don't have to deal with topics that they are not interested in. Thanks.

 

[Kingsrule]

Everyone, let's keep this thread focused on Shunyata's products. Burn-in arguments in general should go into their own thread. Let's make sure our industry people stay here and don't have to deal with topics that they are not interested in. Thanks.

+1000000

 

[BlueFox]

My latest Alpha Digital cable, for the Oppo 93 in the HT, is currently plugged into a Panamax power conditioner in the garage, and powering an industrial shop fan. Friday morning it will move to the Oppo and get acclimated to that system, so it should be ready to go Friday night. I guess I will be watching Avatar again to check color, clarity, detail, etc. that seems to improve with each HT tweak.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I am aware of that and not disputing the fact that some cable burn-in devices can be beneficial, just that they are not required to burn-in a power cable. After the power cable is taken off the burner it will change in character once it is inserted into the system and starts to adapt to its specific current load of the component that is connected to. But, hey if you think it improves the sound quality and the change is sustained over time then go for it. In my own experience, over time, the cables migrate back to the sound qualities before the treatment. Perhaps this is why some recommend that the treatment be repeated regularly.

My primary objection is about injecting square-waves with harmonics up to 100Khz into a power conditioner that is designed to filter out such frequencies. It would certainly be unwise to do so with a power regenerator and could cause it to become unstable and oscillate. It is also not at all helpful to do so into a passive conditioner since those square-waves are going to be sinked by the filters in the conditioner, which would neutralize any potential benefit of the signal.

Could it damage an active conditioner? Definitely. Could it do so to a passive unit? Not likely, but if the signal is sustained long enough it could exceed the thermal capacity of a filter if enough power is applied. And again, what is the goal? To what effect?

If you want to use a burn-in device then do so. This is the Shunyata forum and the title of the thread is about the XiTron Alpha cable. So, i believe that I am entitled to an opinion on the matter in the context of this thread. If people want to continue talking about burn-in devices perhaps it would be appropriate to start a different thread?

Caelin,

How do you separate say the effect of the power cable adapting to the "new current flow" from the equipment's PS capacitors "reforming?"

Also, I find all cables, be they of the IC, PC or speaker cable persuasion, need 12-24 hrs after cooking to sound their best. Some seems related to the metal as Ag cables take longer to burn and settle in. This is clearly in my experimenting beyond the effect of letting the cable sit undisturbed for a period of time.

 

[CGabriel]

I thought that the forum moderator, politely, asked you guys to start a different thread.

 

[Steve williams]

I agree Caelin

Any further OT posts in this thread will be deleted

 

[MylesBAstor]

Steve why don't you split the discussion off. It deserves it's own thread.

 

[Steve williams]

I completely agree and was hoping you and/or jap and Alan would start the thread with the appropriate wording and then I will move the posts here to that thread

 

[MylesBAstor]

Done!