ying and yang--Lamm ML3 and darTZeel 458
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
working on moving things around to fit the VAC's into the space while also allowing access to use the other amps. it's not trivial to move these around. whew!!!
finally came up with a plan where the cables will all work and I have access. it would make it easier if my darts had platforms the same size as their footprint. the wide Box Furniture stands prevent me from being able to have all three amps side by side which would simply this. anyway; here is what it looks like. next---plug them in, bias the tubes, and do some listening.
finally came up with a plan where the cables will all work and I have access. it would make it easier if my darts had platforms the same size as their footprint. the wide Box Furniture stands prevent me from being able to have all three amps side by side which would simply this. anyway; here is what it looks like. next---plug them in, bias the tubes, and do some listening.
Dear Mike,
Once you start putting your comments b/w VAC and Lamm, this thread will hit 2,000 in a few days.
Tang
these are the original VAC 450 Statements, and there are 5 pages in the manual about it and the front panel has a test switch and bias LED's for each output tube. you are instructed to bias at least once a month.
http://www.vac-amps.com/productPages/Statement450.html
these are not the 450 Statement IQ's, which are auto bias.
http://www.vac-amps.com/productPages/Statement450_IQ.html
my money is on the Lamm's to provide the more magical touch to the music (within it's design envelope) and the more useful alternative to the darts.
the big VAC's are going to have to out-dart the darts at what the darts excel at, or be better at the musical magic than the Lamm's. my biggest curiosity is whether the VAC's are quiet enough to compete with the darts; which define quiet and nuanced but not stifled in an amp.
but conjecture is cheap, we have to actually play the game to see who takes home the prize.
Dear Mike,
Once you start putting your comments b/w VAC and Lamm, this thread will hit 2,000 in a few days.
Tang
yes; it could get the blood running pretty good. everyone will want to get their licks in.
I think the 450s are Class A to some number of watts and Class AB for most of the power output. So this is a very interesting tube amplifier topology comparison: low power, SET Class A versus high-power, push-pull Class AB.
It’s really too bad Mike can’t procure a pr Nat Magmas.
170W of pure Class A using the humungous GM-100 transmitting SET might be the better comparison to his Darts.
170W of pure Class A using the humungous GM-100 transmitting SET might be the better comparison to his Darts.
Mike, my bet is that you will still prefer the Dart's for what they do best...and the VAC's and the Lamm's for what they do. After switching back to my ss amp, it is clear that the two technologies...ss and tube, are still different flavors that add up to strengths of their own. I am very happy that I kept my ss amp, as I am sure you are too. The tube amps are an important addition to my system; one that absolutely adds great benefits. Tube vs ss...actually no, IMHO you need both.
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No it was the VAC 30/30 MkIII. I had it on my Ref 3as when I had those speakers.
ok, we have life-off.
listened last night for an hour but was falling asleep after all the moving and schlepping amplifiers (and drove 500 miles the night before after working all day to pick these babies up).
this morning I have biased them twice. I did have a bit of noise (not volume related) from the listening position to begin with I could hear with no music playing, and lifted the ground and now all is silent unless I get my ear right up to the tweeter. so all seems good and a couple hours in to listening. sounds like 'big tubes' (big surprise, heh?). major degrees of liquidity and some fine tubey wetness on things. lots of floating holographic type of presentation. great sense of authority and grip. the bass is powerful and agile if not quite darTZeel agile.
the bass (once again) seems to perfectly integrate and be coherent with the MM7's active bass.
those are my first impressions.
what's not to like? I need more time to get a handle on it and how I feel about it. here we go.
i'm just going to try and listen to music and let the whole thing come to me. tomorrow I fly out to South Carolina for a meeting back Thursday.
listened last night for an hour but was falling asleep after all the moving and schlepping amplifiers (and drove 500 miles the night before after working all day to pick these babies up).
this morning I have biased them twice. I did have a bit of noise (not volume related) from the listening position to begin with I could hear with no music playing, and lifted the ground and now all is silent unless I get my ear right up to the tweeter. so all seems good and a couple hours in to listening. sounds like 'big tubes' (big surprise, heh?). major degrees of liquidity and some fine tubey wetness on things. lots of floating holographic type of presentation. great sense of authority and grip. the bass is powerful and agile if not quite darTZeel agile.
the bass (once again) seems to perfectly integrate and be coherent with the MM7's active bass.
those are my first impressions.
what's not to like? I need more time to get a handle on it and how I feel about it. here we go.
i'm just going to try and listen to music and let the whole thing come to me. tomorrow I fly out to South Carolina for a meeting back Thursday.
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I sense the Lamm's will be on the 4 sale block in the not too distant future ?
it's early for me to speculate. these amps were not previously on my radar and the idea of 'big tubes' was not where I saw myself going. then my friend called, I recalled the encouragement of some 'big tube' fans, and so I now have this opportunity.
that sense of 'hearing through and around something' (liquidity) is present to some degree here. how much is 'some'? and how will that 'character/sameness' play out over time? will that be addicting? or an artifact over time? I now get a chance to find out. I already have likely more authority, space and detail from the darts. so these attributes are not unique in my system.
with the Lamm's there is this undeniable magical focus and emotional connection. will the VAC's get close enough to what the Lamm's excel at?
right now i'm going to just get to know the big VAC's and see how I like big tubes over some extended listing in my system before I try and think too much about it. I've simply stated the obvious. I can see why people fall in love with big tubes. my system is so finely tuned and cohesive already it might not benefit from the 'beautifying' effect enough to justify the 'character'.
I sense the Lamm's will be on the 4 sale block in the not too distant future ?
Looks more like a shop now , the darts still firm in the Middle though, the lamm is indeed on outside??:b
ok, allow me to explain how this works.
job = business meeting = buy toys.
so if you want me to do these crazy things then I fly to South Carolina for my meeting.
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