Natural Sound

[PeterA]

Ahhh, I found myself doing the same thing at a George Winston concert, but I think it was better described as "falling asleep"

I can completely relate Alan. When I was a young boy, my parents would take me to the Chicago Symphony. It was a two hour drive followed by dinner before the concert. My brother and I were dressed in Brooks Brothers blue blazers and ties. That was our introduction to Solti and Giulini and the great symphonies.

 

[Kingrex]

I close my eyes part of the time at classical concerts when I'm intent on the music. My mind is not visualizing players. Its focused on the music and sound of instruments.

Pop and rock I'm eyes wide open taking it all in.

When playing my stereo, I will often close my eyes. But my imagination is me on stage playing and looking at the crowd. Not about looking at the artist playing.

 

[hopkins]

I can completely relate Alan. When I was a young boy, my parents would take me to the Chicago Symphony. It was a two hour drive followed by dinner before the concert. My brother and I were dressed in Brooks Brothers blue blazers and ties. That was our introduction to Solti and Giuliani and the great symphonies.

Now you've got it all in your living room.

 

[PeterA]

Now you've got it all in your living room.

Still here drawn to the thread, still confused, and still missing the point.

 

[hopkins]

Still here drawn to the thread, still confused, and still missing the point.

Only a failed attempt at some humor... But remind me of the point? Just kidding...I won't post here any longer, understood.

 

[Gregm]

That was our introduction to Solti and Giuliani and the great symphonies.

That must have been an exciting experience!
By the way, it was probably Giulini -- no?

 

[PeterA]

That must have been an exciting experience!
By the way, it was probably Giulini -- no?

Good catch Greg. Thank you. Apparently at the time, according to my parents, Juilini was considered by the Chicago audience to have the best back in the business. And a great tailor.

 

[wil]

My target is actually enjoyment because the presentation often reminds me of the experience of listening to live music.



If I were unique, they would not have used the qualifiers “might” and “often”. They refer to our ability to perceive things differently. The recording attempts to captures the sound of the violinist, and I want the system to present it as such, not enhance a sense of excitement because we do not see the violinist in front of us in our room.

I don’t imagine a visual of the musicians playing. That would feel a little cheesy and weird to me. But I do hope and listen for a presence of the living person producing the music.

Listening with eyes open or eyes closed is a very different experience for me. Eyes closed brings more focus and eyes open is a more spatially expansive experience. Our hearing and visual senses affect one another.

 

[microstrip]

I don’t imagine a visual of the musicians playing. That would feel a little cheesy and weird to me. But I do hope and listen for a presence of the living person producing the music.

Not what we are talking about it. We addressed the perception we get when listening real life sighted.

Listening with eyes open or eyes closed is a very different experience for me. Eyes closed brings more focus and eyes open is a more spatially expansive experience. Our hearing and visual senses affect one another.

Ok, but this is a separate subject. If we mix them we get a very confusing debate ...

 

[microstrip]

Good catch Greg. Thank you. Apparently at the time, according to my parents, Juilini was considered by the Chicago audience to have the best back in the business. And a great tailor.

Considering your fantastic auditory memory you must feel startled when you listen to Decca golden age Giulini recordings ...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I’m not sure I understand the question. What approach are you asking me about?

when i asked you this question, the below 'quote' from your post is what i'm referring to........your method of always 'open-eyes' listening.

and i assume for the purposes of this discussion......blindfolded = eyes closed = lights off or very dim. (i never listen with an actual blindfold...never.) and if lights dim or off is a different case? why?

my question:

i am curious if this approach to music listening pre-dated your audiophile life? or is it something you evolved to? if so was that a conscious thing or just happened organically?

It is clear to me, microstrip, that you and I approach this hobby very differently. We do not see the musicians in our listening rooms. We hear wht the recording and system presents to us in our rooms. When I listen to a live performance, closing my eyes does not change what I hear. I do not listen "blindfolded" and do not prefer that way of listening to music, either live or reproduced.

 

[PeterA]

when i asked you this question, the below 'quote' from your post is what i'm referring to........your method of always 'open-eyes' listening.

and i assume for the purposes of this discussion......blindfolded = eyes closed = lights off or very dim. (i never listen with an actual blindfold...never.) and if lights dim or off is a different case? why?

my question:

i am curious if this approach to music listening pre-dated your audiophile life? or is it something you evolved to? if so was that a conscious thing or just happened organically?

OK, thank you Mike for the clarification.

I do listen with lights dimmed in my listening room in the evenings. You can see how dark some of my system videos are. I do sometimes listen with my eyes closed both in my room and at the concert hall, but I usually listen with my eyes open. I thought Francisco’s description of listening blindfolded to be extremely strange because it implies a lack of volition and restriction. I prefer plain language when trying to describe this stuff.

What I notice with eyes closed is that my mind becomes calmer and it is easier to focus on the sound itself in isolation, but I do not notice the sound itself actually changing. I am not distracted when listening with eyes open. I think the visual aspects at a live event do contribute to the experience.

I do not think this is very different from what other audio files do. Apparently though there seems to be some disagreement about image location and specificity between the two conditions.

When I was younger before my audiophile days, I simply enjoyed the music at the moment with my friends, and it was more spontaneous. Now it’s a hobby and I spent time trying to understand what is happening in a conscious way and selected my gear and experimented with set up as a result of my evolving understanding of the listening experience.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

OK, thank you Mike for the clarification.

I do listen with lights dimmed in my listening room in the evenings. You can see how dark some of my system videos are. I do sometimes listen with my eyes closed both in my room and at the concert hall, but I usually listen with my eyes open. I thought Francisco’s description of listening blindfolded to be extremely strange because it implies a lack of volition and restriction. I prefer plain language when trying to describe this stuff.

What I notice with eyes closed is that my mind becomes calmer and it is easier to focus on the sound itself in isolation, but I do not notice the sound itself actually changing. I am not distracted when listening with eyes open. I think the visual aspects at a live event do contribute to the experience.

I do not think this is very different from what other audio files do. Apparently though there seems to be some disagreement about image location and specificity between the two conditions.

When I was younger before my audiophile days, I simply enjoyed the music at the moment with my friends, and it was more spontaneous. Now it’s a hobby and I spent time trying to understand what is happening in a conscious way and selected my gear and experimented with set up as a result of my evolving understanding of the listening experience.

thank you Peter, for the detailed answer. that seems like a pretty normal process. i will leave the 'blindfold' terminology discussion for you and Francisco.

i guess where we might differ is whether we value the additional mind focus eyes closed, or lights off, or dim lights might have for our musical perception processing. where we agree is the calming aspect advantage. maybe the calming=additional mind focus and we are splitting hairs.

anyway, thanks.

 

[microstrip]

OK, thank you Mike for the clarification.

Mike is addressing listening to sound reproduction, I addressed exclusively listening to live.

(...) I thought Francisco’s description of listening blindfolded to be extremely strange because it implies a lack of volition and restriction.

You have been watching too many ransom movies ... Blindfolded is a common term in sound reproduction literature. In fact, the effect of closing the eyes voluntarily to avoid information in conditions we expect an image affects your listening abilities.

I prefer plain language when trying to describe this stuff. (...)

No, you prefer ambiguous language, avoiding the terms used by most of the audio community.

What I notice with eyes closed is that my mind becomes calmer and it is easier to focus on the sound itself in isolation, but I do not notice the sound itself actually changing. I am not distracted when listening with eyes open. I think the visual aspects at a live event do contribute to the experience.

The subject has been deeply studied by academia - see for example:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...s-open_states_an_electroencephalography_study

I do not think this is very different from what other audiophiles do. Apparently though there seems to be some disagreement about image location and specificity between the two conditions.

Considering stereo is an illusion disagreement is normal. I find interesting knowing why we disagree.

When I was younger before my audiophile days, I simply enjoyed the music at the moment with my friends, and it was more spontaneous. Now it’s a hobby and I spent time trying to understand what is happening in a conscious way and selected my gear and experimented with set up as a result of my evolving understanding of the listening experience.

Here we fully agree. But I keep both hobbies - music and audio - in separate lanes that only cross occasionally.

 

[R Johnson]

I can completely relate Alan. When I was a young boy, my parents would take me to the Chicago Symphony. It was a two hour drive followed by dinner before the concert. My brother and I were dressed in Brooks Brothers blue blazers and ties. That was our introduction to Solti and Giulini and the great symphonies.

The dress code at the CSO is now very relaxed Peter.
You do see on occasion some young people "dressed to the nines."

I learned much about Giulini from this page:

Carlo Maria Giulini - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've been a full season subscriber sine 1971. Many great years!

 

[PeterA]

The dress code at the CSO is now very relaxed Peter.
You do see on occasion some young people "dressed to the nines."

I learned much about Giulini from this page:

Carlo Maria Giulini - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've been a full season subscriber sine 1971. Many great years!

That is wonderful. For us growing up two hours out of downtown Chicago, it was a real treat to go into the big city. Our small town of 100,000 people had its own symphony, but it did not compare to Chicago. The dress code was required at the Racquet Club where we played squash, rackets and court tennis and usually had dinner before the symphony. It’s a fabulous formal place steeped in tradition.

 

[PeterA]

Considering your fantastic auditory memory you must feel startled when you listen to Decca golden age Giulini recordings ...

Your constant condescension is remarkable. Winking simple amplifies it. It seems to be your nature.

 

[hopkins]

That is wonderful. For us growing up two hours out of downtown Chicago, it was a real treat to go into the big city. Our small town of 100,000 people had its own symphony, but it did not compare to Chicago. The dress code was required at the Racquet Club where we played squash, rackets and court tennis and usually had dinner before the symphony. It’s a fabulous formal place steeped in tradition.

I heard the Racquet Club had to shut down because all the staff got deported.

 

[Rexp]

Your constant condescension is remarkable. Winking simple amplifies it. It seems to be your nature.

Yes he comes across like a right winker.

 

[hopkins]

Yes he comes across like a right winker.

Or maybe a free radical!