dCS Varese short review

[Mike Lavigne]

The problems are the enormous complexity,

which problems?

the enormous cost, and the practicality/reliability question.

evidence?

This gear is amazingly complex and I personally would not want it in my system for this reason. If there was an issue it , it must be returned to the manufacturer over seas and it could easily be damaged in the shipping etc. There has been enormous improvement in digital playback over the decades but you will never make it sound like vinyl or tubes, and I don't debate that this gear is the best digital solid state playback and sounds the best, IF it performs as billed. What will be the next "ultimate"? Will it be a twenty box DAC? There used to be a cartoonist that poked fun at the high end:

I could just imagine the cartoon: Here is the guy who has bought a twenty box DAC showing it to his wife next to his gargantuan speakers, mega mono amps, etc.,: "Honey, now all I need is by five box CD transport that will be arriving within six months and I'll have music. In the meantime I will turn it on and use my imagination."

You must have a system in the 2 million dollar range and probably a net worth of 50 million to reasonably accommodate gear like this and I would have a real world backup, unless you are an industry expert as most of you are and spend most of your time listening to gear that is not in your home and that you don't own and will never own.

huh?

I have no issue with this. It's what makes the world go round as long as these facts are understood.

is there any basis for your speculation about this complexity issue? or the inference that Wadax users don't own their gear? sure; a few reviewers seem to have Wadax resident in their systems and who knows the story about it. we can also say that about dCS or any brand too. it's just with the Wadax cost it stands out more, but same story. how the high end works. we can say the same about Wilson and reviewers. do you feel guilty or defensive about that? and you should not either. do you wish they had Mac instead of Wadax in their systems? it's the road you are going down.

lot's of legit issues about investing in high end gear of any type. fire away. but these two are dead ends.

Charles; i give you much respect for your very special system and am happy for you that you enjoy it. we all do our own thing.

 

[Stereophonic]

What will be the next "ultimate"? Will it be a twenty box DAC? There used to be a cartoonist that poked fun at the high end:

I could just imagine the cartoon: Here is the guy who has bought a twenty box DAC showing it to his wife next to his gargantuan speakers, mega mono amps, etc.,: "Honey, now all I need is by five box CD transport that will be arriving within six months and I'll have music. In the meantime I will turn it on and use my imagination."

Reality is over any cartoon... Specially in Mcintosh world....

 

[microstrip]

that has to do with who is paying for the room. and logistically the Wadax is much more daunting to ship and move.

IMO choice between these two brands is not determined by logistics - the teams assembling these high end top systems have large experience moving and connecting equipment and don't fear anything - my very complex XLF's were unpacked from seven boxes and assembled in my room in less than three hours! I think pairing is mainly due to distribution arrangements or in some cases, simply to shop owners stock!

 

[Stereophonic]

as an example, North American distributor of avantgarde and former US wadax distributor, prefers to demo dcs with avantgarde, not with wadax

DCs is losing market customers, and its bet to Varèse is crucial for the brand's future. It needs to achieve visibility and results quickly.
I know the pressure they put on their distributors is very big, so I'm not surprised to see Varèse in any system in a showroom.
I'm talking from business view of the industry, i'm sure Varèse will be a nice choice for many people.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I 'm talking from business view of the industry (...)

Are you in the business?

 

[Stereophonic]

Are you in the business?

No. But people talk and there is a lot of money on the table if you aren't blind to see business part of this hobby...

 

[mtemur]

I can assure you that buying a piano is far more dificult than buying a Dac.
Two Steinway (same model) made exactly equal at same time doesn't sound equal.
One Steinway played by two different pianist doesn't sound equal.
One Steinway played by same pianist in different days doesn't sound equal.
What piano sound are you going to get as a reference?
Do you have enought musical knowledge to find these diferences? Because this is accumulative to every instrument and player...
And don't forget different directors, orchestras and theaters.
So, i'm glad to see you enjoy live concerts, me too, but this type of afirmations are a bit prepotent if you want...
From a little years ago, there is an Asian pianist fever.... Lang Lang opened the door...
With all my respect, they have impecable technic but still far away from emotional perspective.
I sent you a very interesting Daniel Baremboin's Master Class to Lang Lang and you'll see and listen diferent worlds only in a few compas of Beethoven Apassionata Sonata.
PD: I've listened both pianist live....

Lang Lang Masterclass by Barenboim

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I agree with you. The same artist playing the same piano can produce different sounds from day to day, let alone different artists playing pianos from different brands. However, there is a general character to the sound of a piano.

When someone says ‘blue skies,’ you know it’s not the exact same shade of blue every day, and it varies across different places in the world, yet you still recognize it as ‘blue skies.’ You don’t mistake it for green grass. The point is to compare the sound of a piano from an audio setup to that of a real piano in a general sense. Believe me there is a greater difference between a piano sound from an audio setup and a real piano than the difference between real pianos from different brands.

This applies to all instruments—saxophone, drums, bass, etc. Of course, there will always be a huge difference between the sound of a real piano and its reproduction through an audio system. But the goal is to get as close as possible while keeping it at a domestically listenable level without losing its lifelike character. Otherwise, we’d be left with irrelevant terms to describe how an audio system sounds, like ‘blacker backgrounds,’ ‘transparency,’ or ‘stage depth.’ These meaningless terms only distract from focusing on the actual instruments.

Nobody really knows how much ‘blackness’ is correct or how deep the recorded stage was—especially when an EMT reverb plate or an echo chamber was likely used to artificially create that depth.

 

[Stereophonic]

I agree with you. The same artist playing the same piano can produce different sounds from day to day, let alone different artists playing pianos from different brands. However, there is a general character to the sound of a piano.

When someone says ‘blue skies,’ you know it’s not the exact same shade of blue every day, and it varies across different places in the world, yet you still recognize it as ‘blue skies.’ You don’t mistake it for green grass. The point is to compare the sound of a piano from an audio setup to that of a real piano in a general sense. Believe me there is a greater difference between a piano sound from an audio setup and a real piano than the difference between real pianos from different brands.

This applies to all instruments—saxophone, drums, bass, etc. Of course, there will always be a huge difference between the sound of a real piano and its reproduction through an audio system. But the goal is to get as close as possible while keeping it at a domestically listenable level without losing its lifelike character. Otherwise, we’d be left with irrelevant terms to describe how an audio system sounds, like ‘blacker backgrounds,’ ‘transparency,’ or ‘stage depth.’ These meaningless terms only distract from focusing on the actual instruments.

Nobody really knows how much ‘blackness’ is correct or how deep the recorded stage was—especially when an EMT reverb plate or an echo chamber was likely used to artificially create that depth.

Very interesting reflexion....
Thanks.

 

[microstrip]

No. But people talk and there is a lot of money on the table if you aren't blind to see business part of this hobby...

Ok, anonymous people talk from fan boys. Sorry I will not enter the subject, I post in this particular thread about what I like, not to speculate about gossip concerning the brands that are not my preference.

 

[Stereophonic]

Ok, anonymous people talk from fan boys. Sorry I will not enter the subject, I post in this particular thread about what I like, not to speculate about gossip concerning the brands that are not my preference.

Ok. Everyone talk whatever they want and it is nice been this way...

 

[JiminGa]

It is a fact that Wadax has monopolized ultra Hi-End Dac market...
They have raised the bar to a level never seen and listened until now...
I'm glad to read Varèse could be at same level.
It is good to all of us.
I'll be even happier to see more brands at this level. At the end, more offer is better to us and push every brand to do better products...
They win, we win... Where is the problem?

I’m not trying to be disrespectful but they do not have a monopoly and it is not a fact. Now if you define an ultra high end DAC set up as over 400k all in then yes they have a monopoly on that. They do not have exclusive control of DACs in the 100k range as DCS, MSB and others sell in this range so they do not have a monopoly here.

 

[microstrip]

dCS has a large international sales network and excellent after sales service and long time permanence in the market - the almost 30 years old dCS Elgar units are still perfectly working at up to 24/96 and easily find buyers in the used market. I had several friend requests for my unit, but it is staying ...

As addressed by other posters, high-end quality is essentially sound quality, but many other points are relevant. I highly praise transparency, and although there is not a firm correlation between measurements and many high-end sound attributes I appreciate knowing in depths what gets my money. I am very happy that dCS submits there products to magazines that take and publish measurements of their products, and considering the prices, show us their development, management and marketing people, as well as their installations.

 

[caesar]

that has to do with who is paying for the room. and logistically the Wadax is much more daunting to ship and move.

sorry, wrong assumption. This is also how she has it in her home, per my sources

 

[caesar]

No. But people talk and there is a lot of money on the table if you aren't blind to see business part of this hobby...

Can you please elaborate on this statement? I am not sure I am following

 

[caesar]

Well, just back from listening to a few of my favorite recordings with the dCS Varese - classical recordings from the XXI century. I will not enter the real music pseudo-contest - surely my opinion is conditioned by the way I listen and appreciate classic music, I have been at a few performances of some of the recordings I listened.

The Varese dCS is really a quantum leap compared to all other DACs I have listened. More information and delivered with a freedom from constraints that helped feeling the soundstage in a way I found approaches closer to what I see and listen in a real stage. It is a dCS - it will not embellish music to make it sound artificially agreeable. It was just a first listening, with a still a non burn-in system, but I was really impressed.

The Varese was being paired with the Wilson XVX and D'Agostino's.

Glad you enjoyed it! Not surprised at all that people who appreciate what dCS is doing are BLOWN AWAY!

Did you write the check?

 

[caesar]

You might ask him/her what the reason is before assuming it has anything to do with quality . No one on this forum can be so gullible to believe that there aren’t interests at stake besides “audiophile qualities”.

Hi Nirodha,
Very good point. My sources, who have been there, tell me after she did all the work of establishing the brand in North America and submitting the unit for review to "Malignant" Robert Harley so he could call it BEST, the spanish wadax dude took away her distribution for USA. Nevertheless, she has both dcs and wadax. Dcs IS feeding avantgarde TRIOS and wadax feeding another very expensive - yet lesser system than Avantgarde Trios... per what she thinks is best

 

[caesar]

It is a fact that Wadax has monopolized ultra Hi-End Dac market...
...
I'm glad to read Varèse could be at same level.

I wouldn't be surprised if dcs has sold more Varese units in the last few months than Wadax has sold overall, just because it's a larger company with a well established brand. Very few people compare, but just buy.

Do you have any proof Wadax has "monoplized"?

 

[Stereophonic]

Can you please elaborate on this statement? I am not sure I am following

I'm sure you won't find where i'm not...

 

[dcathro]

I wouldn't be surprised if dcs has sold more Varese units in the last few months than Wadax has sold overall, just because it's a larger company with a well established brand. Very few people compare, but just buy.

Do you have any proof Wadax has "monoplized"?

I would bet that a lot of loyal DCS customers transferred the funds as soon as they got the email from their distributor that it was available.

 

[Stereophonic]

Sure. But don't from Lotus Hifi ( London).