dCS Varese short review

[microstrip]

Streaming as a complete digital source so including DAC. I just don’t like Digital enough to spend much money on it.

Different people, different kind of audiophiles. If I was prevented from listening to recordings issued after 1990, I would get a different hobby. My "golden age" recordings period was mostly up to two decades ago and then I moved to new interpretations and different types of music. Most of my current musical enjoyment comes from "fresh" music.

 

[Al M.]

Different people, different kind of audiophiles. If I was prevented from listening to recordings issued after 1990, I would get a different hobby. My "golden age" recordings period was mostly up to two decades ago and then I moved to new interpretations and different types of music. Most of my current musical enjoyment comes from "fresh" music.

Same here. I listen to a lot of contemporary classical compositions, and new interpretations as well. Vinyl as a sole source would restrict me musically, which would be unacceptable.

 

[PeterA]

Peter, maybe I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying you don't have a digital streaming source? If true, how do you access new music?

YouTube and radio. The same way my kids do. I only listen to my records through my main stereo system.

 

[Ron Resnick]

We have to clean heads regularly,

Oh yes, of course -- cleaning heads. I find that so easy and routine that I forgot to mention it.

 

[microstrip]

Only on damaged records. If you know how to care for a new record this is not a problem.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...range-which-operates-like-the-vpi-16-5.38249/

As far as I see, unless we go DIY, something that 99% of vinyl buyers will not do, you have to spend a lot for a decent cleaning machine.

Fortunately I got a VPI17 when they were not so expensive and digital muffled my desire for a ClearAudio Double Matrix Professional.

 

[Al M.]

Only on damaged records. If you know how to care for a new record this is not a problem.

On the thread about the "The Original Source" series by DG, which I follow with interest, there are a number of complaints about noisy and defective records new from the pressing plant.

Nonetheless contemporary AAA releases tend to be very popular as evidenced by DG's recent 'The Original Source' series.

Well, you mentioned it...

 

[PeterA]

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...range-which-operates-like-the-vpi-16-5.38249/

As far as I see, unless we go DIY, something that 99% of vinyl buyers will not do, you have to spend a lot for a decent cleaning machine.

Fortunately I got a VPI17 when they were not so expensive and digital muffled my desire for a ClearAudio Double Matrix Professional.

Surely, vinyl can be expensive with the accessories too, but as we see from the original topic of this very thread, so can digital be expensive. As your desire was muffled, my desire has been silenced. Emoji.

 

[Elliot G.]

Different people, different kind of audiophiles. If I was prevented from listening to recordings issued after 1990, I would get a different hobby. My "golden age" recordings period was mostly up to two decades ago and then I moved to new interpretations and different types of music. Most of my current musical enjoyment comes from "fresh" music.

Without the ability to stream I would have no way to hear or find anything new. I love the fact that Qobuz suggests and plays music that I might enjoy. I have found lots of music that I was unaware of and also I am able to go back and find things that I forgot and never owned . I have nothing against records but I have no idea how one finds new or undiscovered, forgotten items without spending a lot for something that maybe lousy.
My personal experience with LPS ( i had 6000) was the overwhelming majority were mediocre at best and only a small percentage were system worthy. There were way to many issues for my liking .

 

[Kingrex]

Without the ability to stream I would have no way to hear or find anything new. I love the fact that Qobuz suggests and plays music that I might enjoy. I have found lots of music that I was unaware of and also I am able to go back and find things that I forgot and never owned . I have nothing against records but I have no idea how one finds new or undiscovered, forgotten items without spending a lot for something that maybe lousy.
My personal experience with LPS ( i had 6000) was the overwhelming majority were mediocre at best and only a small percentage were system worthy. There were way to many issues for my liking .

Try spotify. Much larger catalog and better prediction data on what you might like.

 

[microstrip]

On the thread about the "The Original Source" series by DG, which I follow with interest, there are a number of complaints about noisy and defective records new from the pressing plant.

There is a joke about french Citroen cars from the 60's and 70's. They were great cars, extremely comfortable due to innovative pneumatic suspensions and performant motors, but unfortunately not very reliable. In car magazine enquires Citroen car owners reported a high number of frequent individual problems involving service, but when asked at the end if they considered the car reliable, the proud Citroen owners always gave it four or five stars!

 

[Elliot G.]

Try spotify. Much larger catalog and better prediction data on what you might like.

Qobuz and Tidal offer the highest resolutions among the three streaming services, with both supporting lossless FLAC files at up to 24-bit/192kHz. Spotify, while also offering a high-quality setting, streams at a lower resolution, generally 320kbps
FYI
I have tried many of the services and IMO Qobuz is the choice to listen to music on my system.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Same here. I listen to a lot of contemporary classical compositions, and new interpretations as well. Vinyl as a sole source would restrict me musically, which would be unacceptable.

i too listen to many newer contemporary classical compositions on digital, but with 11k-12k records i never run out of interesting classical vinyl choices either. no; they are not new cutting edge stuff, but i have thousands of early music classical pressings that are just as fresh and stimulating. and i find it takes me a couple of plays to digest them properly. and they make me think a little about the music. learning the history of where these early music pieces fit into the evolution of music is also rich and rewarding.

i think it just head in the sand stuff to try and make a case that either digital streaming or vinyl is really musically limiting or not stimulating. vinyl is harder to do, lots more headwind, but for sure doable.

why do we always try to cancel each other's musical or format choices? seems like very small defensive thinking.

 

[mtemur]

+1. I don't understand why everyone doesn't understand this? In my view, buying a TT to play LPs that were made with a digital process to some degree is just self-defeating if the goal is to capture "analog" sound. The only people who should by a TT if they don't already own a significant LP collection are those who plan to buy used LPs from the "golden age" (~58-80) and don't mind that their choices are but a fraction of the music that is available digitally.

I often come across comments like “vinyl is cut from digital.” First of all, that’s not necessarily true — at least not for the records I buy, or the ones most vinyl lovers on this forum tend to buy.

People favoring digital think that they’re listening the purest, identical digital file as the master. More importantly, I’m always amazed by the naivety behind these statements — as if producers would ever let the exact digital master leave their vault unprocessed. Do people really believe that the original digital masters are uploaded directly to streaming servers? Do you think the FLAC files you stream haven’t been processed or encrypted in some way? Or FLAC is lossless?

This reminds me of the old debates about CDs. People often assume it’s just simple ones and zeros, without understanding how many layers of processing and encryption digital audio goes through before it’s burned onto a CD. There’s absolutely no direct relationship between the original digital audio file and the CD you buy. Sure, they can be mathematically identical after processing, but in their stock form, the data is different. The same applies to streaming and downloads. Digital audio passes through a huge number of processes from the server to your streamer — and those processes can negatively impact sound quality.

If you disagree, then explain this: why do switches, LPSUs, and digital cables (Ethernet, USB) make a difference in your home setup? Why do those things matter, while thousands of miles of cables and countless chips along the transmission chain supposedly don’t? If digital processes like encryption and decryption don’t affect sound, then why do we hear differences between better DACs and cheaper ones?

The main problems are:

- You’ll never get access to the actual digital master file — not through streaming or downloading. No producer will let you have what he/she paid a lot of money to have. Maybe if the producer personally brought it to you on a hard drive, it would sound incredible — but that’s not what we get.

- Streaming and downloading involve transmission over the internet and require multiple stages of digital processing, including encryption and decryption. These processes degrade sound — possibly even more than cutting vinyl directly from the digital master file would.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I often come across comments like “vinyl is cut from digital.” First of all, that’s not necessarily true — at least not for the records I buy, or the ones most vinyl lovers on this forum tend to buy.

People favoring digital think that they’re listening the purest, identical digital file as the master. More importantly, I’m always amazed by the naivety behind these statements — as if producers would ever let the exact digital master leave their vault unprocessed. Do people really believe that the original digital masters are uploaded directly to streaming servers? Do you think the FLAC files you stream haven’t been processed or encrypted in some way? Or FLAC is lossless?

This reminds me of the old debates about CDs. People often assume it’s just simple ones and zeros, without understanding how many layers of processing and encryption digital audio goes through before it’s burned onto a CD. There’s absolutely no direct relationship between the original digital audio file and the CD you buy. Sure, they can be mathematically identical after processing, but in their stock form, the data is different. The same applies to streaming and downloads. Digital audio passes through a huge number of processes from the server to your streamer — and those processes can negatively impact sound quality.

If you disagree, then explain this: why do switches, LPSUs, and digital cables (Ethernet, USB) make a difference in your home setup? Why do those things matter, while thousands of miles of cables and countless chips along the transmission chain supposedly don’t? If digital processes like encryption and decryption don’t affect sound, then why do we hear differences between better DACs and cheaper ones?

The main problems are:

- You’ll never get access to the actual digital master file — not through streaming or downloading. No producer will let you have what he/she paid a lot of money to have. Maybe if the producer personally brought it to you on a hard drive, it would sound incredible — but that’s not what we get.

- Streaming and downloading involve transmission over the internet and require multiple stages of digital processing, including encryption and decryption. These processes degrade sound — possibly even more than cutting vinyl directly from the digital master file would.

there is a bit of truth to the 'bits is bits' thing. not 100% equivalence, but mostly recoverable. and if we pursue native format files we can get a pretty good result. and maybe (cringe) the forward looking error correcting thing of the Wadax does help in this part, but maybe not. don't know. would not surprise me if it did.

if particular music is important finding the native digital format is many times reasonable. i know over time it has always been a worthy effort when i like the music alot. to dig a little and find the native format. native redbook files can be fantastic. and if it's dsd and it was a native PCM rip the PCM is always better. obviously no dsd streaming. but i have lots of PCM based dsd files. most are that way. i do find that with tape rips to PCM getting that native rip format is especially important and these are some of the best sounding digital files. and some great (best music) tape rips to digital are dsd files or SACD's.

i know native format matters more than the actual bit depth and resolution mostly. and not being messed with. these days with high rez streaming there are plenty of gems that are the real deal.

 

[mtemur]

there is a bit of truth to the 'bits is bits' thing. not 100% equivalence, but mostly recoverable. and if we pursue native format files we can get a pretty good result. and maybe (cringe) the forward looking error correcting thing of the Wadax does help in this part, but maybe not. don't know. would not surprise me if it did.

if particular music is important finding the native digital format is many times reasonable. i know over time it has always been a worthy effort when i like the music alot. to dig a little and find the native format. native redbook files can be fantastic. and if it's dsd and it was a native PCM rip the PCM is always better. obviously no dsd streaming. but i have lots of PCM based dsd files. most are that way. i do find that with tape rips to PCM getting that native rip format is especially important and these are some of the best sounding digital files. and some great (best music) tape rips to digital are dsd files or SACD's.

i know native format matters more than the actual bit depth and resolution mostly. and not being messed with. these days with high rez streaming there are plenty of gems that are the real deal.

I agree the superiority of the native format compared to converted alternatives but my comment points out the illusion of listening the same digital master file by streaming and downloading.

 

[Kingrex]

Qobuz and Tidal offer the highest resolutions among the three streaming services, with both supporting lossless FLAC files at up to 24-bit/192kHz. Spotify, while also offering a high-quality setting, streams at a lower resolution, generally 320kbps
FYI
I have tried many of the services and IMO Qobuz is the choice to listen to music on my system.

Are you trying to find new music? Qobuz sucks to find music. Its sort of aimless searching. Spotify is much better at offering up stuff you may like. If you find stuff you like, try to find it on other higher resolution services.

 

[Elliot G.]

Are you trying to find new music? Qobuz sucks to find music. Its sort of aimless searching. Spotify is much better at offering up stuff you may like. If you find stuff you like, try to find it on other higher resolution services.

Qobuz sounds better than all the other services and to me that is important.

 

[bonzo75]

The interesting thing I find is that people are not distinguishing between new music (i.e. music produced recently) vs music that is new to them. To listen to music produced this month is fine, if you are familiar with all the music produced till date. Otherwise, there is lots for you to explore. Ancient music can be new music too. I am interested in music that new to me. If you were listening to Britney and Spice Girls when they were new, and today Taylor Swift, well then, we know your choice of playback.

 

[microstrip]

I often come across comments like “vinyl is cut from digital.” First of all, that’s not necessarily true — at least not for the records I buy, or the ones most vinyl lovers on this forum tend to buy.

Do you consider that the great majority of forum members that are not actively participating are not vinyl listeners? That "WBF members" are just a few dozens?

People favoring digital think that they’re listening the purest, identical digital file as the master.

Proved since long with CDSs - we get an exact copy of the distribution master.

More importantly, I’m always amazed by the naivety behind these statements — as if producers would ever let the exact digital master leave their vault unprocessed. Do people really believe that the original digital masters are uploaded directly to streaming servers? Do you think the FLAC files you stream haven’t been processed or encrypted in some way? Or FLAC is lossless?

No, they will not. First, most times the original master is not adequate to being reproduced - it needs mastering. Second, they will not kill the gold egg chicken - future re-masters can generate more money.

This has been exposed in articles in classic music magazines several times, it is not an audiophile subject.

This reminds me of the old debates about CDs. People often assume it’s just simple ones and zeros, without understanding how many layers of processing and encryption digital audio goes through before it’s burned onto a CD. There’s absolutely no direct relationship between the original digital audio file and the CD you buy. Sure, they can be mathematically identical after processing, but in their stock form, the data is different. The same applies to streaming and downloads. Digital audio passes through a huge number of processes from the server to your streamer — and those processes can negatively impact sound quality.

You are addressing playback problems. Even our glasses can negatively impact sound quality.

If you disagree, then explain this: why do switches, LPSUs, and digital cables (Ethernet, USB) make a difference in your home setup? Why do those things matter, while thousands of miles of cables and countless chips along the transmission chain supposedly don’t? If digital processes like encryption and decryption don’t affect sound, then why do we hear differences between better DACs and cheaper ones?

Emile from Taiko Audio masterly addressed this question years ago. Do we need to come back to it regularly?

The main problems are:

- You’ll never get access to the actual digital master file — not through streaming or downloading. No producer will let you have what he/she paid a lot of money to have. Maybe if the producer personally brought it to you on a hard drive, it would sound incredible — but that’s not what we get.

Fortunately. This a false problem.

- Streaming and downloading involve transmission over the internet and require multiple stages of digital processing, including encryption and decryption. These processes degrade sound — possibly even more than cutting vinyl directly from the digital master file would.

Your subjective opinion, I disagree, but respect it. More than ever after listening to the subject of this thread, the dCS Varese, several times.

Streaming is a recent advance in digital sound technology. Manufacturers are perfecting equipment, as could be expected. Five years ago, I considered it an inferior standard, based in my subjective perception. Not anymore in 2025.

 

[PeterA]

Qobuz sounds better than all the other services and to me that is important.

Yes, you prioritize sound quality, just like I do, and each of us has his own priorities and values. That is why some prefer LPs. You prefer streaming files over Qobouz and have explained many times why you dropped vinyl.