Is High End Audio Gear Worth the Money?

[Argonaut]

As you have told us incessantly for years. The need to repeat sounds more like self-reassurance.
I remember Tang's thoughts on this.

Ahhhh self-reassurance … So not too dissimilar to yours and Peters Incessant spamming of the forum with glossy images and poor audio YouTubes of the transducers that your audio Swami just happened to have for sale ?

 

[tima]

Ahhhh self-reassurance … So not too dissimilar to yours and Peters Incessant spamming of the forum with glossy images and poor audio YouTubes of the transducers that your audio Swami just happened to have for sale ?

Against my beter judgement I looked at this message. It confirms why you are on ignore. But you'll probably get a lick from your buddy Al M.

 

[Argonaut]

Better .

 

[Lagonda]

I agree to part of what you say. But you contradicted yourself.

There is a pretty vibrant and strong market of low cost, high quality audio equipment. Even a Fosi integrated amp for $89 with 2 x Sparko Opamps that are $129 a piece makes for a fantastic 100 watt amp. And that Fosi accepts bluetooth from a phone and plays very good music. Good enough Jays Audiolab was looking around for the Gryphon or Boulder amp in a recent video. Only to find it was a tiny less than $300 Class D Darko amp.

Beats Sold for $2B. Thats a $79 to $300 headphone. Headphones are part of Audiophilia. Big market. The smart players are in it. And making a killing.

Even at the shows, there are more and more small manufacturer that are showing complete packages under $10,000. Now that is still huge money to most people. Even Sonos gets high on their price to value proposition.

The name is alluding me at the moment, but I bought my mom a set of self powered speakers designed to sit on a shelf and stream direct to them or take a RCA. $350. They were at the PAF last year. They were set in a room on a stand. With or without a Sub. Fantastic sound. As good as anyone who just wanted to listen to music could want. With a sub, less than $1,000 compete. Hook a Rega Planer 1 to it and you have a wonderful TT based stereo for the masses. And it may actually sound better than some audiophiles systems that are not set up correctly.


I hear SS amps as enhancing/coloring the bass. Thats part of why I don't like most SS/dynamic driver systems. A good tube amp such as I have is faster and sounds more like a snare, horn, piano or violin. I have tighter, faster bottom end. SS has more power, but it comes with a sound of its own. SS sounds sort of digital like to me. Vinyl is necessary to add back the natural flavor. So, again, were back to liking something for the distortions it is adding.

Your open baffled speakers prefer the damping factor and behavior of tube amps to the cheaper SS ones you have tried in your system, i get that.

 

[Elliot G.]

I agree to part of what you say. But you contradicted yourself.

You are looking at this only through your eyes as a hobbyist. You aren't part of the audio business.
Young people were sold headphones, ear buds, ipads, ipods and cell phones. They listen to music as an accessory not as something to do as a singular act. That is what happened. They bought what celebs told them to have. I am in this business I see what walks in and what calls on the phone. There is little or none music education in schools, FM radio largely disappeared, concerts became shows and then we are here.
It was great to see Chesky's Kid make something entry level and I wish him much success if he can market it to bring first time buyers into audio stores where they can "experience " quality sound at some level. This is the key . In order to do that the focus on how they market must change and change drastically. It has to be cool again.

 

[Kingrex]

Your open baffled speakers prefer the damping factor and behavior of tube amps to the cheaper SS ones you have tried in your system, i get that.

What are the 3 SS amps I had at my house to listen to wirh my open baffle. Hint. ll 3 are very well known.

 

[Lagonda]

What are the 3 SS amps I had at my house to listen to wirh my open baffle. Hint. ll 3 are very well known.

What have you tried ?

 

[bonzo75]

What have you tried ?

Please ask him on his conversion to SETs after some stellar SS amps

Post in thread 'My Little Barn'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/my-little-barn.26426/post-1047601

If you are thinking about it, please start a thread

 

[Holmz]

Headphones probably do have colorations, but they are far less than any speaker! And they've been that way for decades. Headphone amplifiers don't have nearly the problems an amp driving a loudspeaker does. So they can be quite a lot more neutral as well, although I have encountered a few that made it seem like they weren't even trying.

As always, I recommend getting good recording equipment and working with it; you'll find our really quick how good mics and headphones really are. If I had to guess, Dr Toole has less experience in that area, but its only a guess.

Do they also have cross overs and multiple drivers?

 

[ssfas]

oung people were sold headphones, ear buds, ipads, ipods and cell phones. They listen to music as an accessory not as something to do as a singular act. That is what happened. They bought what celebs told them to have. I am in this business I see what walks in and what calls on the phone. There is little or none music education in schools, FM radio largely disappeared, concerts became shows and then we are here.
It was great to see Chesky's Kid make something entry level and I wish him much success if he can market it to bring first time buyers into audio stores where they can "experience " quality sound at some level. This is the key . In order to do that the focus on how they market must change and change drastically. It has to be cool again.

You would seem to be spectacularly out of touch and condescending. You've spent most of your life in high-end audio that most of the top 1% earning grown up's can't afford, let alone kids on a limited budget.

My kids are 24 and 28. Both are big in to music, more the 28 year old. Quite a lot of his social life is around music, he and his friends (most from his school days) regularly go to gigs and festivals. He's been going to Glastonbury with the same group since he was 15. Most of them play instruments, he plays electric and acoustic guitar. They are not so gullible as to follow celebrity trends, and don't have the money to pay inflated prices for anything. Both have the same headphones and my wife and I (Sony WH-1000XM5). They and their friends sit and listen to music as a social activity and are very knowledgeable. He used to do a student radio show focusing on jazz and blues. One of his favourited hobbies is painting and he enjoys nothing better than an afternoon painting and listening to music.

My elder son and his girlfriend have a hand-me-down stereo, a lot of records and an Auralic Aries Mini streamer I donated, into a 1980s integrated amplifier (cost $300 7 years ago). My younger son just has headphones and an encyclopaedic knowledge of rap music, and a lot else besides.

Both my elder son and his girlfriend have been exposed to high-end audio. Her father's system is excellent and he has a magnificent vinyl collection. They just have no interest or aspirations for anything close to high end audio, it's the last thing on their list of financial priorities, just good sound out of a modest system.

 

[Kingrex]

You are looking at this only through your eyes as a hobbyist. You aren't part of the audio business.
Young people were sold headphones, ear buds, ipads, ipods and cell phones. They listen to music as an accessory not as something to do as a singular act. That is what happened. They bought what celebs told them to have. I am in this business I see what walks in and what calls on the phone. There is little or none music education in schools, FM radio largely disappeared, concerts became shows and then we are here.
It was great to see Chesky's Kid make something entry level and I wish him much success if he can market it to bring first time buyers into audio stores where they can "experience " quality sound at some level. This is the key . In order to do that the focus on how they market must change and change drastically. It has to be cool again.

I don't get your comments about headphones? I have nieces and nephews. They love headphones for personal listening. All of them. They additionally like how the headphone blocks outside noise.
Are you saying, a person who buys consumer brand headphones does not enjoy music as much as any of us do?

I never had music education????? What does that have to do with listening? It was simply enjoying music in the car or at parties that got me to buy a piece of crap all in one in high school. Mostly so I could listened to headphones at night.

I believe most people listen to music as much as we all did and do. I think they look at their discretionary money and say an Alexa or laptop speakers or headphones work just fine.

 

[bonzo75]

Both my elder son and his girlfriend have been exposed to high-end audio. Her father's system is excellent and he has a magnificent vinyl collection.

Hi, what’s the system?

Do your son and his gf argue on whose father’s system sounds more natural?

 

[Kingrex]

You would seem to be spectacularly out of touch and condescending. You've spent most of your life in high-end audio that most of the top 1% earning grown up's can't afford, let alone kids on a limited budget.

My kids are 24 and 28. Both are big in to music, more the 28 year old. Quite a lot of his social life is around music, he and his friends (most from his school days) regularly go to gigs and festivals. He's been going to Glastonbury with the same group since he was 15. Most of them play instruments, he plays electric and acoustic guitar. They are not so gullible as to follow celebrity trends, and don't have the money to pay inflated prices for anything. Both have the same headphones and my wife and I (Sony WH-1000XM5). They and their friends sit and listen to music as a social activity and are very knowledgeable. He used to do a student radio show focusing on jazz and blues. One of his favourited hobbies is painting and he enjoys nothing better than an afternoon painting and listening to music.

My elder son and his girlfriend have a hand-me-down stereo, a lot of records and an Auralic Aries Mini streamer I donated, into a 1980s integrated amplifier (cost $300 7 years ago). My younger son just has headphones and an encyclopaedic knowledge of rap music, and a lot else besides.

Both my elder son and his girlfriend have been exposed to high-end audio. Her father's system is excellent and he has a magnificent vinyl collection. They just have no interest or aspirations for anything close to high end audio, it's the last thing on their list of financial priorities, just good sound out of a modest system.

Totally agree. My nephew and his living together girlfriend, the daughter of a good audiophile friend of mine love headphones. Her dad is always pushing amps and speakers on them. She says speakers take up room. And headphones block noise as well as don't intrude on other people. They can sit together while one might watch a move and the other play music. Both using headphones.

 

[Al M.]

The out-of-touch anti-headphone elitism is pathetic.

I didn't start with a speaker system either. I made the transition from headphones back in 1991. Growing up in the Seventies I had listened almost exclusively via headphones, and my first audiophile system was with Stax headphones, after which I switched to speakers.

There is no problem staying with headphones. Yes, it's not the same experience, but you don't have to deal with the room -- a HUGE advantage. And which kids today can afford an apartment or house with a decent-sized room where they crank up speakers? Let's get real, folks.

On head-fi and other sites there are entire high-end communities around headphones.

 

[Kingrex]

Headphones probably do have colorations, but they are far less than any speaker! And they've been that way for decades. Headphone amplifiers don't have nearly the problems an amp driving a loudspeaker does. So they can be quite a lot more neutral as well, although I have encountered a few that made it seem like they weren't even trying.

As always, I recommend getting good recording equipment and working with it; you'll find our really quick how good mics and headphones really are. If I had to guess, Dr Toole has less experience in that area, but its only a guess.

Headphones was how I realized what my stereo was not doing right. When I realized what was on the media the headphone exposed that my speaker did not, I was able to focus my speaker tuning to extract more and put it in the room.

 

[Kingrex]

The out-of-touch anti-headphone elitism is pathetic.

I didn't start with a speaker system either. I made the transition from headphones back in 1991. Growing up in the Seventies I had listened almost exclusively via headphones, and my first audiophile system was with Stax headphones, after which I switched to speakers.

There is no problem staying with headphones. Yes, it's not the same experience, but you don't have to deal with the room -- a HUGE advantage. And which kids today can afford an apartment or house with a decent-sized room where they crank up speakers? Let's get real, folks.

On head-fi and other sites there are entire high-end communities around headphones.

Mine were just Realistic. But worked for me. There were nigbts my dad would bust into my room blazing mad my open back/open cell foam surround headphones were disturbing him in his office next to my bedroom. I just think he didn't like AC/DC.

 

[Elliot G.]

The out-of-touch anti-headphone elitism is pathetic.

I didn't start with a speaker system either. I made the transition from headphones back in 1991. Growing up in the Seventies I had listened almost exclusively via headphones, and my first audiophile system was with Stax headphones, after which I switched to speakers.

There is no problem staying with headphones. Yes, it's not the same experience, but you don't have to deal with the room -- a HUGE advantage. And which kids today can afford an apartment or house with a decent-sized room where they crank up speakers? Let's get real, folks.

On head-fi and other sites there are entire high-end communities around headphones.

it has nothing to do with Elitism its just reality. As usual here people fly off the handle and change the point. I never said that owning headphones is anything other than that is the way that many young people listen. They don't sit in front of a stereo system, they don't but stereo gear like previous generations did. I never said they don't listen and quoting that a few kids are different doesn't make your point correct. The subject is whether high end is worth it and to many young people who have never been exposed to it and only listen on ear buds, beats and apple wireless thingys as they go about their day it certainly has not been
Taking shit out of context is worthless , the reality is entry level people into audio is not great and if people don't get it then most will never get it and therefore it wont ever be worth it.

 

[Elliot G.]

I never had music education????? What does that have to do with listening?

Exposing children to music at an early age is good for their development, good for their education, good for knowledge of different kinds of music .
One thing I agree with you is that I don't care for you either.

 

[Kingrex]

Please ask him on his conversion to SETs after some stellar SS amps

Post in thread 'My Little Barn'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/my-little-barn.26426/post-1047601

If you are thinking about it, please start a thread

I have a good SET amp as well as my PP KT88 Blade. Scott who made the Blade said my experience of how the amp extracte each instrument and vocal in a complex piece and places it precisely in a deep and wide soundstage is the reason he called it, The Blade. And it does it with a far more natural and real tone than the Dartzeel I had.

The 845 SET has more juice and texture in the body and midrange. But it does not have the ability to lay a soundstage with such exquisite detail as the Blade. A little more haze and blending of the soup. Sill, very engaging and pleasant to listen too.

I would not disagree with Lagonda that a smooth amp can benefit from a more lively and detailed source. I just disagree that a well done tube has less positive attributes and more negative than a SS. They play different. I like the way a good tube plays. I have had plenty of tube that had a sound that was more pleasing than accurate. CJ, Rogue, Ampsandsound, Audion, Altec. It took listening to Jazdocs system to direct me to the correct manufacturer for my taste.

Years back I loved my Sonus Faber/CJ system. Balls to the wall I called it. That was my wifes favorite setup. She would go back to that in a heartbeat. Her taste.

 

[Kingrex]

Exposing children to music at an early age is good for their development, good for their education, good for knowledge of different kinds of music .
One thing I agree with you is that I don't care for you either.

You don't think driving in the car playing music and singing with your kid is exposure to music. You don't think playing music on the Alexa is exposure to music. Do you think sitting a kid in a chair forcing them to name classical composers and rapping them on the nuckles with a ruller will make a life longer music lover.

You don't need epensive toys to enjoy music. You don't appreciate music any more than a poor man because your rich and have an expensive stereo.
If you think, Is It Worth It means do you have to have an expensive stereo to love music, then we see the thread subject differently. I see the thread as pertaining to an audiophile only and the exorbitant pricing of exclusive brands. I don't see the thread subject as, do you have to spend money to enjoy music. I don't think your trying to say that either. But you seem to resist the idea of a headphone company selling millions of devices, worth billions of dollars as reflecting consumers continuing love of music. You seem to want to tie a financial investment to a measure of love.