100% wrong, TAD designed TAD electronics at highest level of both dynamics and transparency.
In the price range you can not find better than TAD equipments in this market.
equipments that are less sensitive to ac power quality are less dynamic.
Isolation Transformer and Balanced Power versus PS Audio Regenerator
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
In the price range you can not find better than TAD equipments in this market.
equipments that are less sensitive to ac power quality are less dynamic.
Here you are lauding TAD, but when I ask if you tried Torus, you say no, but insinuate all isolation transformers are the same. I guess I can take that logic and say TAD sound the same as Mcintosh. Why buy TAD when Mcintosh is the same, cost less and has great resale value. Don't every try TAD. TAD has noise issues. Mcintosh does not and sounds the same.
You do get I am being facious. But the point remains. The majority of isolation transformers are crap. They don't work well. They are not Torus. They are some no name piece of junk for use in a warehouse.
@Amir
I am not an engineer. I don't even know Torus publishes what makes their transformers different from others. But I do know they are used around the globe in music and movie recording studios.
Years back before I knew, I tried all sorts of isolation transformers. Topaz, SqD, Triplite. They all were MMaaaaa. Nothing special. Very apparent you had a filter inline. And not in a good way. I also tried a variety of filters. Shunyata, Audio Quest, Furman, Isotek. Some sucked. Others were good with some stuff.
When I started messing with electrical power and trying to determine how to feed the rack properly, I decided to try a large isolation transformer. The 2 major choices were Equitech and Torus. I actually wanted to rep Equitech as Mike L had it and it worked. But, they did not have a option to use AFCI breakers which are NEC required and I could not install them in a Dwelling Unit. Remember, Mikes has been in place for a while and its not in a Dwelling unit. To be a dwelling unit, you have to have provision for cooking, sleeping and bathing. As far as I know, Mike does not have a kitchen in his barn. Anyhow, that lead me to use Torus. As soon as I put it in, I knew it was special. It was nothing like the other filters I had tried. The only other filter I feel that rivals it (on front end equipment) is a Shunyata Everest. But a Torus can be sized appropriately to power any size amplifier. And a Torus can adjust the output voltage to deal with sags and swells in the mains.
Torus is not a dead stop to all noise. No filter is. But its darn good. It is far far better than any commercial or medical transformer I tried. So when someone says they got a Controlled Power unit, or a medical isolation transformer, Or a Eaton UPS and they find it is not all they hoped, I feel thats like saying you got a stereo amplifier that is not all you hoped, and now you feel no audio amplifier is that special because you tried one and that equates to all.
I am not an engineer. I don't even know Torus publishes what makes their transformers different from others. But I do know they are used around the globe in music and movie recording studios.
Years back before I knew, I tried all sorts of isolation transformers. Topaz, SqD, Triplite. They all were MMaaaaa. Nothing special. Very apparent you had a filter inline. And not in a good way. I also tried a variety of filters. Shunyata, Audio Quest, Furman, Isotek. Some sucked. Others were good with some stuff.
When I started messing with electrical power and trying to determine how to feed the rack properly, I decided to try a large isolation transformer. The 2 major choices were Equitech and Torus. I actually wanted to rep Equitech as Mike L had it and it worked. But, they did not have a option to use AFCI breakers which are NEC required and I could not install them in a Dwelling Unit. Remember, Mikes has been in place for a while and its not in a Dwelling unit. To be a dwelling unit, you have to have provision for cooking, sleeping and bathing. As far as I know, Mike does not have a kitchen in his barn. Anyhow, that lead me to use Torus. As soon as I put it in, I knew it was special. It was nothing like the other filters I had tried. The only other filter I feel that rivals it (on front end equipment) is a Shunyata Everest. But a Torus can be sized appropriately to power any size amplifier. And a Torus can adjust the output voltage to deal with sags and swells in the mains.
Torus is not a dead stop to all noise. No filter is. But its darn good. It is far far better than any commercial or medical transformer I tried. So when someone says they got a Controlled Power unit, or a medical isolation transformer, Or a Eaton UPS and they find it is not all they hoped, I feel thats like saying you got a stereo amplifier that is not all you hoped, and now you feel no audio amplifier is that special because you tried one and that equates to all.
Has to be the AVR model. I use an RM20 myself. I also have a single high power 4.5KVA made for me that will be installed when I finish my remodel. I have not had a need for an AVR as my power in WA has been very stable. We don't suffer brown or blackouts.
Torus is a parent company from Plitron, a well known audio transformer designer and manufacturer. Plitron is a Canadian respected name in toroidal transformers, known for its innovations in electro and mechanical aspects of power transformers. Their Narrow Bandwidth Technology is patented - I remember reading the patent some years ago. No voodoo in their designs - just good science and technology.
they made transformers for past Krell’s and many other audio makers.
I know they make custom to spec as well
I know they make custom to spec as well
Yes, all true. This is published. Thank you for pointing it out.
I would like to reiterate what I have said many times. All filters work optimally when they are supplied good power. That means new, clean wire that is sized properly. They also want a good ground. That means both earth and reference of equipment grounds to neutral where bonded in the main service. Filters are not a fix for those issues. Filters are there to try and smooth out a distorted wave form. They are trying to make a fluid sine wave with no harmonic spikes through a very wide frequency range. Your primary efforts should be addressing any shortcomings in the wiring in the electrical supply. Then think about a filter.
I did not listen to Torus so I do not say Torus is not good but in real world we can not spend much money to buy all of isolation transformers in this market. when you try different transformers, different ac filters and different ups/inverters and you will find all of them compress dynamics then you stop buying more equipments.
Many modern audio playback systems are not very dynamic so these systems do not show the isolation transformer (or ac filters or …) dynamic compression so I do not trust what audiophiles think about isolation transformer or any other ac solution in this market.
David, Romy, Kevin all have horn systems and you know horn/set are much more dynamic than modern systems so I trust their judgment about different ac solutions. All of them believe there is no perfect ac solution in this market
This is on page 2 on the the HFA review by Christiaan Punter
Attachments
Rex, do you use the OEM power cable with your RM20? I was surprised to read this note on the Torus site, when researching just now:
"The RM 20 uses a single 2400 VA toroidal transformer to supply 120V at 20A to the 10 AC outlets on its rear panel. It has a 20 a circuit breaker for its on off switch and uses a 14 AWG detachable AC cord rated at 15 amp/125V."
Not rate-limiting in any way due to transformer behavior/delivery of power?
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That is a misprint. Its a 12 awg cord. But no. I use a custom 20A cord with gold ends. Its takes a little roughness off the top. Small change but heard. I am also looking for duplex options to modify mine. That, or I may capture a cord and direct wire a cord to the Tous and a Furutech IEC. That is soft of how I power my preamp. Its a bolted connection at the power strip with a IEC on the end. Made with simple 12 AWG MTW wire. One of my best cords. No duplex connection.
Then maybe you have to accept what Microstrip says and accept the TAD is not good at filtering noise in its own internal power supply and will sound poor in a system where line noise is present. Pick your poison.
You could consider carrying another brand of amp that works better in the environment where you sell equipment.
I'm poking a little fun at you. But what are you going to do in reality?
...makes sense. 20A IEC and outlets and 14 gauge pc, I had to raise my hand. Thank you.
Then maybe you have to accept what Microstrip says and accept the TAD is not good at filtering noise in its own internal power supply and will sound poor in a system where line noise is present. Pick your poison.
You could consider carrying another brand of amp that works better in the environment where you sell equipment.
I'm poking a little fun at you. But what are you going to do in reality?
I think the problem is I live in big complex with 200 apartments so the AC power is not good. I had many different systems both tubes and solidstates in my showroom, for example I had top of the line Vitus Masterpiece series and also Wilson Alexandria and …
I think all transparent dynamic systems are sensitive to AC power quality.
You can call David @ddk and talk to him about his system. David believes the AC power quality is very very important. You can not say David should change Lamm equipments because the ac power quality change the sound.
I think Microstrip has no idea about AC power quality. We should talk to experts like David.
In audio industry between solidstate systems (dac, pre, power) I did not see more dynamic more transparent than TAD systems.
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Someone on Steve's Thread about Schnerzinger was intonating that one should ditch all their filters and try Schnerzinger first. Go look at the thread about 1 day back. Being that Schnerzinger is very expensive, its a good product for you to carry. Who wants to sell Torus when the markup is maybe $1000 to $3000. There is no money in it as a dealer. Too inexpensive for what you get. You can easily spend $30,000 on a full Schnerzinger filter setup. Maybe it works. I have no idea. If it does, you make money for your pocket and you fix a problem.
We don't need to call David to talk about AC power quality. We just need to read what he wrote in the past in WBF when he was an active member. A pity you have not read it and misrepresent his the opinions .
You are welcome. A pity you never discussed any of my many objective posts in the subject and those of other people who posted valuable contributions. You just post gossip and feelings. Not my cup of tea.
Why , if he has posted his clear opinions before?
Thanks for your opinion. I have listened to TAD electronics many times. Decent sounding, good value for money but not the more dynamic and transparent existing SS IMO.
It is funny you claim I did not read what David wrote about ac cables, ac filters and …
I know David never liked your recommended 5 star AC filters AC cables and …
I also talked to david about AC quality some month ago and he shared his information about that.
Me and David are close friends.
I think you have no valuable information about ac power solution. This forum needs expert audiophiles like David not Inexperienced members like you.
1- You can not judge TAD system is show condition.
2- your ears are not trained to understand what dynamic means. Your taste is far from dynamic sound. You sold your Lamm and Wilson, this means you have no idea how important is dynamics.
In Iran we had dCS scarlatti and upgraded scarlatti to vivaldi. I think TAD Reference series D600 digital source is more dynamic than your favorite dCS. Just look at huge power supply of TAD D600 and compare it to dCS.
TAD Reference C600 preamplifier with big power supply is more dynamic than many ss preamplifiers.
TAD M700 psu size is around 5500VA , it deliver 350w to 8 ohm it means TAD used 8 times bigger psu in all of his electronics.
TAD is unknown to this market in comparison by other brands like CH, Dagostino, … but TAD Japan is better than all of them even in higher price range.
My friend Mayer lives in CA and he has Living Voice horn. He likes horns like WE and he listened to many audio systems around the world, he visited my room and listened to my TAD when AC power quality was good, he told me TAD is very dynamic , very transparent. Actually TAD Reference one , Gobel Majestic and Wilson WAMM are more like a horns than a cone speaker
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Gentlemen, let's please talk about the thread topic and not individual posters/members. Whether they be past or present...
Tom
Tom
Can you explain how the box speakers are like horns ?
within horns there are a few types . I'm curious ?
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