Would you pay a consultant to set up your system

[taters]

I was reading on another website where a guy hired a consultant to set up his system. He originally set it up himself but he wasn't happy with the sound. He hired the consultant to set up his turntable and reset up his system. He claims it's the best thing he has ever done. He said his system sounds amazing now. He obviously paid a lot of money for this service. I feel if he had taken the time to find the right dealer he could of negotiated the setup in the deal when he bought his equipment.

 

[NorthStar]

It sure is fun to learn ourselves as we go...but I can relate to what you just said...and I'm 100% in favor...for folks who simply don't have the time...but do have the finances.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

If you are referring to a thread started by Brian (who's a member here) on the SHForums, I believe he paid $2,500 for that service. He doesn't strike me as someone who wouldn't do his homework and I'm sure he tried as hard as he could to get satisfaction from the local dealers available. From reading that thread it sounds like he certainly got what he paid for.

 

[astrotoy]

I have been using consultants to help me and teach me how to use equipment, mainly the ones I have used for my ripping project. This is mainly pro equipment and, for me, too complicated to learn on my own. So I have hired professional engineers who use this equipment and software in their daily jobs. I found it costs a very small fraction of the cost of the equipment and software. I also have used one of the top TT setup guys to do my TT and cartridge alignments. Again, well worth the cost. He got my TT/tonearm/cartridge allignment better than I was ever able to do, and also showed me what to listen for to dial in VTA for different records. Again well worth the cost, less than 10% of the cost of the TT+cartridge.

Larry

 

[taters]

If you are referring to a thread started by Brian (who's a member here) on the SHForums, I believe he paid $2,500 for that service. He doesn't strike me as someone who wouldn't do his homework and I'm sure he tried as hard as he could to get satisfaction from the local dealers available. From reading that thread it sounds like he certainly got what he paid for.

He actually paid a lot more than 2500.00. He said he had the consultant there 6 times. Out of curiosity I went to the consultants website and he charges 1100.00 a day plus travel fees, hotels and food. All I am saying is if you would of bought from the right dealer that has the knowledge you could have negotiated a deal for installation when you bought the equipment. There are still some very good dealers in this country. I have 2 local dealers that will give me a free setup on a turntable if I purchase a cartridge. Both of these dealers have been setting up TT for 30 years.

 

[PeterA]

I hired Jim Smith to set up my speakers and listening position. His fee was well worth it and the sound of my system improved tremendously. It was one of the most educational and enjoyable weekends I've had in this hobby. Unfortunately, some dealers charge extra to set up speakers. Sure it may be negotiable if you buy a pair of new speakers from them, but I have heard stories about selling speakers at full retail and then charging an hourly fee to set them up and to deliver them. I find this surprising, but then if they can sell a DAC at full retail with no set up required, why not charge to deliver and set up a pair of speakers?

I think it is fun to try to learn how to do some of this stuff oneself, but hiring a professional can often be quite educational and well worth the fee. Proper listener seat and speaker location and analog set up are vital to getting the most out of one's system. If the local dealer can do it, great, but if he can not, then I highly recommend finding someone who can. Why not try to get the full potential out of one's system?

 

[Rodney Gold]

No
I did it myself .. I have my own idea of what my system should sound like and I am quite technically inclined
From room build right to final target curve design.
however had Jim Smith been there, I would have paid good money for his opinion and help...

 

[taters]

No
I did it myself .. I have my own idea of what my system should sound like and I am quite technically inclined
From room build right to final target curve design.
however had Jim Smith been there, I would have paid good money for his opinion and help...

That's good you can do it yourself. I respect that.

 

[DaveyF]

One problem that would seem to be a concern....say one hire's the expensive set-up guy and you really don't like the result. Since a lot of what this hobby is about (seems) is personal taste, I would suspect this could lead to some very unpleasant scenarios. The other issue is the fact that there would seem to be a question as to whether your set-up expert fully understands the gear that you are installing. The dealer of said gear would likely have some experience with that same gear, a non dealer rep, perhaps not so much. OTOH, I do know that with the Linn table, for example, there are a few 'go to' experts that do travel around and do the "fettling" ( final set-up) of the deck, and they are highly sought after.

 

[taters]

One problem that would seem to be a concern....say one hire's the expensive set-up guy and you really don't like the result. Since a lot of what this hobby is about (seems) is personal taste, I would suspect this could lead to some very unpleasant scenarios. The other issue is the fact that there would seem to be a question as to whether your set-up expert fully understands the gear that you are installing. The dealer of said gear would likely have some experience with that same gear, a non dealer rep, perhaps not so much. OTOH, I do know that with the Linn table, for example, there are a few 'go to' experts that do travel around and do the "fettling" ( final set-up) of the deck, and they are highly sought after.

You make some really good points. This hobby is a lot about personal taste.

 

[JackD201]

I do that for other people so it would kind of be crazy to have someone do it for me. That said it has happened on two occassions where we went to show and I was very sick. The severe head colds rendered me virtually deaf. In those instances two of my very good friends (that I trust totally) who also happen to be dealers helped tune our room for us.

It is about personal sonic priorities. If someone comes in and hammers his own idea of what sounds right instead of working towards what you like, show him the door.

 

[amirm]

If you live in a scenic part of the country, and need someone to set up your turntable, I am your man.

No, I have never setup a turntable before. I don't need to go to the moon to know there is no air there.... Nothing a few youtube videos cannot fix....

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

One problem that would seem to be a concern....say one hire's the expensive set-up guy and you really don't like the result. Since a lot of what this hobby is about (seems) is personal taste, I would suspect this could lead to some very unpleasant scenarios.

Personally, I always do it myself. But, even though you like the chosen equipment from audition elsewhere, you might not like the final sound in your room regardless of whether you or an "expert" set it up. Tweaking certain aspects might or might not improve it. Room effects are complex.

I find that we have a powerful new tool available today that can be of great help, which is DSP EQ. This gives you much more control over a system's voicing via the frequency domain target curve, as well as combatting many common room issues. It does so much more precisely and predictably than almost any other means, including old tone controls. Unfortunately, many traditional audiophiles reject the idea without having so much as tried it. I can maybe see the point with analog source material, but with digital material, it can really be huge.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I would think that as a consultant one would have the experience in having dealt with a whole variety of equipment pieces and brands, and additionally have the common sense to tune the system to the room based on the owners' preferences. If not, then that person shouldn't really be consulting. N'est ?e pas?

 

[docvale]

Hiring an audio consultant should not be different than hiring an interior decorator... The point of the consultant, though, should not be a matter of properly align a cartridge: I would see the consultant as someone that helps you to assemble the system that is right for your budget and your musical tastes.

In all honestly, a good dealer should already cover most (if not all) the work that a consultant would do. And, talking about installation, I'd say that when buying certain products the installation procedure should not need a negotiation.

 

[PeterA]

I hired a friend to assemble my first system. He was a former dealer and had good relationships with particular brands. I suppose he was a consultant in the sense that he recommended certain pairings, ordered the gear and delivered it, and he set it all up for me. My local dealers did not carry Eggleston, Pass Labs, or SME at the time. He understood about value and matching components and that was the basis for the system that I listen to today.

Years later, after I spend a year with my current speakers, I read about and hired Jim Smith. He improved things further.

 

[cjfrbw]

I suppose if an "expert" saves you from tossing and turning in OC disorder nightmares, uncertainties and doubts then he or she would be worth the money to give your obsession peace of mind that things are "right".

It is hard for me to imagine why somebody would pay to have someone set up a turntable, unless it is unusually complex or the person just can't work at all with his hands and eyes. Turntable setup is a "shot in the dark" anyway just trying to get the arrow in the very large error envelope, it just isn't as precise as the self anointed mavens claim. The turntables are precise, the tonearms are precise, and the cartridges are as precise as they can make them. However, the end result is always just some version of approximation.

As soon as the "expert" left, I would start screwing around with things, anyway, and it would probably soon not resemble the "expert" oeuvre. I don't think I am interested in listening to an expert's toss off museum piece.

 

[taters]

I suppose if an "expert" saves you from tossing and turning in OC disorder nightmares, uncertainties and doubts then he or she would be worth the money to give your obsession peace of mind that things are "right".

It is hard for me to imagine why somebody would pay to have someone set up a turntable, unless it is unusually complex or the person just can't work at all with his hands and eyes. Turntable setup is a "shot in the dark" anyway just trying to get the arrow in the very large error envelope, it just isn't as precise as the self anointed mavens claim. The turntables are precise, the tonearms are
precise, and the cartridges are as precise as they can make them. However, the end result is always just some version of

approximation.


















As soon as the "expert" left, I would start screwing around with things, anyway, and it would probably soon not resemble the "expert" oeuvre. I don't think I am interested in listening to an expert's toss off museum piece.

From what you describe a consultant is not for you. I feel a good audio dealer should know as much if not more than a consultant. He deals with the gear everyday. I feel if you find a great dealer to buy your stuff from he should set it up for you and if it includes a turntable that should also be taken care off. I would never buy a turntable or cartridge from a dealer if they were not going to set it up complimentary. We are lucky that in 2015 we still have good dealers to help us with system set up. One day when all the brick and mortars are gone. And yes, one day that will happen. Then you can hire your 1000.00 a day consultant.

 

[PeterA]

I suppose if an "expert" saves you from tossing and turning in OC disorder nightmares, uncertainties and doubts then he or she would be worth the money to give your obsession peace of mind that things are "right".

It is hard for me to imagine why somebody would pay to have someone set up a turntable, unless it is unusually complex or the person just can't work at all with his hands and eyes. Turntable setup is a "shot in the dark" anyway just trying to get the arrow in the very large error envelope, it just isn't as precise as the self anointed mavens claim. The turntables are precise, the tonearms are precise, and the cartridges are as precise as they can make them. However, the end result is always just some version of approximation.

As soon as the "expert" left, I would start screwing around with things, anyway, and it would probably soon not resemble the "expert" oeuvre. I don't think I am interested in listening to an expert's toss off museum piece.

We all approach this hobby in different ways. For me, it is more about learning that it is about sleepless nights and OCD nightmares. The experts are not necessarily the last word on any part of this hobby, but the good ones may teach us something that we did not know before. We could then take that lesson and apply it the next time we buy a cartridge and want to mount and align it ourselves. For many of us, this hobby is a continuous learning experience. I appreciate anyone who is able to teach me something I did not know about set up, component matching, things to listen for, acoustics, music, just about everything in the hobby.

I disagree about turntable set up. I think it is all about precision. The most precise and easy to use protractors usually provide the best results. The more precise the alignment of the stylus in the groove and the coils in the magnets, the better the sound usually is. One can certainly learn how to set up an analog system himself, but if one is not that experienced, the help of someone who knows a bit more can usually make a pretty significant difference. If the guy is curious and wants to learn, he may then know more the next time around.

Just look at all the threads asking advice about DACs, tubes, amp matching, cable matching, record cleaning machines. The list is endless. People want to learn and occasionally, they are willing to pay for the advice.

To each his own, but I appreciate the advice of those who know more than I do. And sure, I'll tinker a bit more once they leave to see if I can improve things still further with what I have just learned. The interesting thing is that some audiophiles reach a level of experience where they actually know more than some of the experts who charge for their services.

 

[taters]

We all approach this hobby in different ways. For me, it is more about learning that it is about sleepless nights and OCD nightmares. The experts are not necessarily the last word on any part of this hobby, but the good ones may teach us something that we did not know before. We could then take that lesson and apply it the next time we buy a cartridge and want to mount and align it ourselves. For many of us, this hobby is a continuous learning experience. I appreciate anyone who is able to teach me something I did not know about set up, component matching, things to listen for, acoustics, music, just about everything in the hobby.

I disagree about turntable set up. I think it is all about precision. The most precise and easy to use protractors usually provide the best results. The more precise the alignment of the stylus in the groove and the coils in the magnets, the better the sound usually is. One can certainly learn how to set up an analog system himself, but if one is not that experienced, the help of someone who knows a bit more can usually make a pretty significant difference. If the guy is curious and wants to learn, he may then know more the next time around.

Just look at all the threads asking advice about DACs, tubes, amp matching, cable matching, record cleaning machines. The list is endless. People want to learn and occasionally, they are willing to pay for the advice.

To each his own, but I appreciate the advice of those who know more than I do. And sure, I'll tinker a bit more once they leave to see if I can improve things still further with what I have just learned. The interesting thing is that some audiophiles reach a level of experience where they actually know more than some of the experts who charge for their services.

That is a very true statement. I belong to one of the big audiophile clubs. Are meeting are once a month at one of the local dealers. A lot of time the attendees know more about the equipment than the dealers do. I notice after the meetings some people will ask questions to some of the other members rather than talk to the dealer.