Would you pay a consultant to set up your system

I would use a consultant if I were to design a new room from scratch. Who I would use, I don't know...but would have to be someone with a proven track record in designing listening rooms. I don't think I would pay for a setup of my equipment as I feel I can do that well myself given the years of experience/trial and error in my current room.
 
Many people let their wives assist them in their home theater sound system setups...in the living room. :b
...Like speakers hanging from the ceiling (new Dolby Atmos with eleven speakers)...multiple subwoofers under the coffee table and in the four corners...speakers on the side and rear walls close to masterpiece art paintings by Paul Matisse, Gauguin, Picasso, Van Gogh, Salvador Dali, etc. :b
 
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If I had the $ and a very high end system, sure I could see leveraging an "expert". However, how do you know he/she is getting the most of your system? Also, what if you decide at a later date to change room treatments? How much could you leverage the setup? Also, at some point, if the cost of hiring an "expert" digs into a significant % of your overall system, I'd question the value. For example: If my TT costs $8K and the expert sets it up and it costs $2K, I just blew 25% of the TT cost which could have went to a better cartridge, phono pre, etc. Which would have made a bigger sonic improvement? Me setting up with a better cart or the "expert" with my existing TT?
 
I hired Jim Smith to set up my speakers and listening position. His fee was well worth it and the sound of my system improved tremendously. It was one of the most educational and enjoyable weekends I've had in this hobby. Unfortunately, some dealers charge extra to set up speakers. Sure it may be negotiable if you buy a pair of new speakers from them, but I have heard stories about selling speakers at full retail and then charging an hourly fee to set them up and to deliver them. I find this surprising, but then if they can sell a DAC at full retail with no set up required, why not charge to deliver and set up a pair of speakers?

I think it is fun to try to learn how to do some of this stuff oneself, but hiring a professional can often be quite educational and well worth the fee. Proper listener seat and speaker location and analog set up are vital to getting the most out of one's system. If the local dealer can do it, great, but if he can not, then I highly recommend finding someone who can. Why not try to get the full potential out of one's system?

Anybody who is capable of hearing the effect of his tip#121 is good in my book.
I could show him some further tricks in that area.
 
Many people let their wives assist them in their home theater sound system setups...in the living room. :b
...Like speakers hanging from the ceiling (new Dolby Atmos with eleven speakers)...multiple subwoofers under the coffee table and in the four corners...speakers on the side and rear walls close to masterpiece art paintings by Paul Matisse, Gauguin, Picasso, Van Gogh, Salvador Dali, etc. :b



I can just imagine somebody hiring a consultant if you are married. Most wife's would flip out and the next day they would rearrange the system back to the way it was. Flush 2k down the toilet.
 
I can just imagine somebody hiring a consultant if you are married. Most wife's would flip out and the next day they would rearrange the system back to the way it was. Flush 2k down the toilet.

You set boundaries...wife in charge of decorating around the stereo or put it in a man cave where the man decides.....Simple!
 
I can just imagine somebody hiring a consultant if you are married. Most wife's would flip out and the next day they would rearrange the system back to the way it was. Flush 2k down the toilet.

Yes, and you are the thread starter (would be cool if WBF had a feature for that...hint hint).

Of course I was humorous, because this is strictly the Man's own serious listening hi-fi stereo room (domain) here that we're all talking about.
For a dedicated home theater room; hiring a professional installer, acoustician, builder, architect, etc. could run you in the five figures very easily.

But for only stereo, take Steve (Williams) right here for example...and look @ his total investment in hiring Bonnie as his professional sound consultant expert. I think her name is Bonnie, yes. Also, Amir gets hired by well healed customers for integrated sound in their homes. I'm sure his expert consultation isn't exactly free.

Peter said it well before; hire the person you trust the most and let him/her do his/her expert consultation stuff.
Balance things proportionally...with your job (or retirement saving funds), your room, your gear and your passion. ...And of course your time...more or less that you have.

So, some spend nothing, and others $10,000 and more...it all depends. @ the end we're all in it for the same goal...music listening satisfaction.
Some folks get that from a pair of good quality cans, others from lifelike orchestral music works in their rooms.

Me, I would hire pros if I was financially sound...because a lot of my time would be spent travelling the world too. ...But that's just me...in my dreams.
The reality, mine, is it's up to me to experiment with what I have...my room...and a better EQ system. ...It has to be my own time...the only time.

Some members here have a nearfield music listening setup...no need to hire a professional for that...the guys are already professional themselves.

If all the people of our planet could coexist all together in harmony there wouldn't be any audio forums in the entire internet. ...Or maybe couple, including WBF. :b
 
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I had 5 "accousticians" in prior to my room build .. not one of them agreed as to what I should do and where I should listen.. ok not jim smith..but these guys werent dolts either..
At any rate , I LOVE messing with my system..its part of the hobby..if all I wanted was music ..i would buy a lifestyle set and forget system.
It was the same when I used to do drag racing , a ton of enjoyment and education was gained by doing it yourself and reaping the rewards on track
 
Set up learning comes mainly by trial and error. It gives you a better understanding of your room acoustics and the capabilities of the components.

Sure this takes years of experience and some may not have the skills to get to that level at all. But that is surely the fun of this hobby. Trying to learn and enjoying the good day after so many of the bad ones and sleepless nights. I think we have all been there.

I can understand getting a consultant, if you are stuck with an issue which you use can't seem to shake off or solve. And hence then hiring out the services of a professional who probably has studied acoustics and made it into their living. I think it's not the electronics that we generally struggle with. It's understanding the room and how you can get the optimum placement off your speakers in them.

Most 'system' set up consultants have years of experience behind them just like many other audiophiles do. They have probably got there because they are doing this day in and day out. Working in the industry makes you get to that level earlier.

At the end, I feel there is a time when you can work out yourself if you are extracting the most (99%) out of your system or not.
 
I would not say no to Laurence Dickie coming round to my place and giving me a few tips to get the best out of the speakers he designed .. he actually helped me more re my room build than the acousticians.. long distance...
 
Hi

There is pleasure involved in working on and witnessing your system improving and reaching a point where you think no progress is possible ... It may take years however to come to do what a good consultant can do in one session... We pride ourselves of our great hearing and our abilities to tune a system ... We, audiophiles however are not that good at any of those as we think we are...

There are people out there that can bring any system to a higher level and often for not the price of an audiophile cable ...

In conclusion I do not mind using a consultant and definitely will...
 
Another Viewpoint

I have watched this thread develop from its inception. Since I am named in several posts, I hope it is OK to make a few observations.

Reference - IME, audiophiles simply don’t have a great reference for what to expect from their systems. Therefore it is difficult to know where to go or how to get there. I make this observation from installing and voicing perhaps 700 or so systems in my career. With a tiny handful of exceptions, dealers do not demo nearly the sound quality that they should - or could. You certainly will not hear it at a show.

Dealer service – (this is my pet peeve, about which I occasionally rant to other industry associates and sometimes to my RoomPlay clients who are especially satisfied with their musical engagement when I am done, yet frustrated that their dealer couldn’t or wouldn’t do this for them). So let me come out and say it - in general, dealers do not provide the level of service that they ought to. IMO, they should install what they sell, and not leave until they cannot get the system sounding better with the gear and room at hand. If they would perform this service, in most cases they would have gained a loyal client for life.

Why don’t they do it? - I blame it on short-sightedness at best, or inability to really know what to do, and in some cases, an unwillingness to do the work required. I emphatically agree that the dealer should be doing what I and some others are asked to do.

Retail audio specialist – As I write this, I am backed up more than 18 RoomPlay voicing sessions, and I have had to turn away 3 out of 4 applicants for a couple of years now. If the dealers would step up, there would be little call for someone else to help. It seems to me that a retail audio specialist needs to offer the sort of service that goes against the discount grain. I say this with substantial experience in this area, which I will briefly outline below.

Qualifications part A – Almost without exception, the clients that I have worked with over the years have been bright, successful individuals. Whether they are anesthesiologists, attorneys, businessmen, whatever, they have proven success in their lives. But they still do not have a reference, nor do they know what to do beyond the so-called “basics” (which are wrong all too often). Many of them are also time-poor. They need someone to help them. They have finally realized that they don’t want to throw more money at the latest and greatest components when the fundamental basics of voicing to the room haven’t even been covered.

Qualifications part B
– The people that are serving as “consultants” appear to have considerable experience. With one exception, they are classified at WBF as Industry Experts. That exception is Jim Smith. Not sure why this is the case, but here are some qualifications in case you didn’t know. Honestly speaking, I do not need to work, nor get more accolades, but I do enjoy helping to make a difference in people’s lives. I am simply including this info to offer credibility to the statements made above.

Skipping as much as possible, here we go:

Managed a high-end audio store in Norfolk, VA in the early 70s (ARC, SAE, Crown, McIntosh, Dahlquist, Magnepan, ReVox, etc.). Installed every high-end component that I sold. Some of those clients are still active with me today.

Sold (and installed) so much ARC, that in late 1975, Bill Johnson flew into Norfolk from Minnesota, expressly to offer me a job at Audio Research. I subsequently took it and moved wife and family to Minnesota. Traveled for ARC and, with Wendell Diller, called on HP and JGH.

A year later, Jim Winey hired me away from ARC to be Magnepan’s National Sales Manager. I wrote the Magneplanar T-1D, MG-2, and MG-1 owner’s manuals. I visited the dealer network early and often. We had about 80 dealers when I joined Magnepan, most of whom were not doing much for us or for their clients. I made wholesale cuts and got the network down to about 40. I trained them on set-up. In two years our sales quadrupled (helped in no small measure by the introduction of the MG-1 to our much smaller and more knowledgeable dealer network).

In late 1979, I opened my own hi-end shop – Audition - in Birmingham, AL. Same concept – install what you sell. Audition was named one of the top 50 audio shops by AudioVideo Interiors (leading industry mag at the time) in 1980 & 81. The other recipients were all larger shops with some longevity, unlike our start-up venture.

We became a (and sometimes THE) top dealer for a number of our vendors (Linn, Goldmund, Rega, Transparent Audio, Apogee, Magnepan, Quad, Wilson, Vandersteen, Thiel, MLAS, Cello, Spectral, Bang & Olufsen, Luxman, Nakamichi, NAD, etc.).

Started a location recording company as well. NPR affiliates broadcast my recordings. Primarily used Mark Levinson ML-5 – a modified Studer A80 (30/15 IPS half track). In the '80s, excerpts from my master tapes were played at several CES Shows, including Magnepan & Apogee (I did not allow any attribution to me, as the performers were well known). Gordon Holt commented very favorably on the tapes in an issue of Stereophile. These digital copies were made on my Nakamichi version of the Sony PCM-F1. Mr. Nakamichi gave me one of his first two units. Jeff Rowland later modified the line stage for me.

In 1998, Holger Fromme offered me the distributorship for Avantgarde Acoustics. Two years later Avantgarde-USA demo’d for the first time at the 2000 CES. We received tremendous press, from folks who had never liked horns before. In 2003, at the Stereophile Show in San Francisco, Robert Harley of TAS and Srajan Ebaen of 6moons reported on the never-before-seen phenomenon of the audience giving a standing ovation at the end of each 25-minute demo for three days! Harley mentioned it again recently. Of the shows where we participated, we won Best of Show acclaim in the audio press 5 out of the 7 shows. Always different rooms, different components. I personally (and solely) voiced each of these demos. Avantgarde had not received such acclaim previously, nor have they since I resigned as distributor in 2005.

Get Better Sound was introduced in 2008. There is much more I could tell, but it’s getting way out of hand. Just wanted you to know that my comments at the top of this post come from considerable successful high-end audio industry experience, since 1969.
 
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Qualifications part B
– The people that are serving as “consultants” appear to have considerable experience. With one exception, they are classified at WBF as Industry Experts. That exception is Jim Smith. Not sure why this is the case, but here are some qualifications in case you didn’t know.
Funny you should say this Jim. As I started to read your post, I looked to the left and realized we did not have the Industry Expert designation for you and was going to ask if you wanted that. I have made this change now and apologize for it missing before. I simply was unaware of you being here, or too old to remember. :D

Thank you for the well-written post and participation in our forum.
 
I have your book , an audiophiles must and a bible for many , it has helped me and numerous others here in South Africa
Thank you
 
I have your book , an audiophiles must and a bible for many , it has helped me and numerous others here in South Africa
Thank you

Yes, Jim's book, "Get Better Sound", is a great read. I used many of the tips to improve the sound of my system and it is what prompted me to contact Jim and request a RoomPlay voicing session. As I have mentioned a few times, Jim improved the sound of my system further, but it was the weekend long visit that was the most meaningful. I learned a lot about voicing a system to a room and meeting Jim and sharing some meals and many discussions was one of the most enjoyable and educational experiences I've had related to audio.

If learning how to "get better sound" leads to a more emotional connection to one's music collection, I say, it is worth whatever the reasonable fee is.

Jim, thanks for adding your perspective to this thread. I wholeheartedly agree that dealers should be offering complete satisfaction to their customers, and that should include proper set up of anything they sell.
 
Agree fully Jim. In another thread I said one of the biggest problems is that many customers don't really know exactly what they want. As a seller of, let's just go out and say it, EXPENSIVE goods which carry very HIGH expectations, it should be expected that the customer be given the after sales, set up service that might hone in on what pushes his buttons in all the right ways. In my case I start with how I personally like it and proceed from there. Lots of Q&A and lots of fiddling. I make it a point to explain what I'm doing and how they affect the sound so the owner can do the same later on. In all these years I've only had two customers say the way I set it up was perfect. Those two customers also ended up making some minor adjustments on their eventually as all the others did. That made me very happy. It means they are taking an active part in seeking their enjoyment. They care how their music is served up. That's always a good thing in my view.

I've not read your book but will seek it out. :)
 
I think you mistakenly assume that most dealers have this specialized expertise. In reality, very few do. That's why they also hire my setup guy to do it for them. In fact, the room he setup at RMAF won best of show. While I'm sure the dealer/manufactures who were displaying in that room were plenty capable, there's a big difference between great and world class. I guess they preferred to let someone a little more skilled than they optimize the setup. I had that preference as well. :)
 

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