What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?

[Nightlord]

Your narrative is somewhat lost. It's all about the music and the end result as to hits ones ears.

Sorry, English is not my native tongue.

 

[thedudeabides]

To Amir....Circular buLLsH!t bro'. Tom

Doesn't this violate the WBF rules for posting? No personal insults, stay on topic, etc.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[DaveC]

Thanks. Would have called that power outlet. Don't use one, have the power distributer hardwired from the fusebox.

Would be this one for here, I guess:
http://www.furutech.com/2013/02/02/1854/


But based on what was claimed before, that it was most important the closer to the amp you get, then would it not with that reasoning be more efficient to put it as close to the amp as possible with http://www.furutech.com/2015/11/18/12057/ ?

It's this one for schuko: http://www.furutech.com/2016/05/19/13025/

If you have it hard-wired you'd need to put it in the distributor, where it will benefit only one component but even then it will be unmistakable.

 

[Nightlord]

If you have it hard-wired you'd need to put it in the distributor, where it will benefit only one component but even then it will be unmistakable.

Please tell me how something can be unmistakable when applied to a component that is already completely transparent and impossible to detect? Any audible change would mean it's become detectable, and in such a case - worse.

While making it even more inaudible may be nice in a feelgood kind of way, but still... inaudible.

 

[thedudeabides]

Please tell me how something can be unmistakable when applied to a component that is already completely transparent and impossible to detect?

With all due respect, that component does not exist.

 

[Nightlord]

With all due respect, that component does not exist.

Understand your scepticism as they are very rare, but with proper Before/After testing a few models have been found over the years. And if you think your ears are better than the Sound Technological Society's (LTS) blindlistening team, I'm sure they'd let you participate if you fly to Stockholm for one of their sessions. I'm not buying gear which they have managed to detect (unless the detection lies in a range I won't use it for).

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Understand your scepticism as they are very rare, but with proper Before/After testing a few models have been found over the years. And if you think your ears are better than the Sound Technological Society's (LTS) blindlistening team, I'm sure they'd let you participate if you fly to Stockholm for one of their sessions. I'm not buying gear which they have managed to detect (unless the detection lies in a range I won't use it for).

is it already April 1st?

 

[DaveC]

With all due respect, that component does not exist.

Yup, the best you know is the best you've heard. If I had a nickle every time someone realized an improvement they didn't think was possible or got rid of noise they didn't think existed I'd be rich.

 

[thedudeabides]

And if you think your ears are better than the Sound Technological Society's (LTS) blindlistening team, I'm sure they'd let you participate if you fly to Stockholm for one of their sessions.

Oh my. Do I sense an attitude?

Are you claiming you have absolute, irrefutable knowledge that no one else on the planet has?

 

[DaveC]

It's this one for schuko: http://www.furutech.com/2016/05/19/13025/

Actually, it looks like there is a FI-30 NCF version as well that is meant for power distributors, the one above is intended for wall mounting.

 

[RogerD]

Just a observation on my circuit grounding scheme. My preamp is my sink and has a NBS Statement cord(not a fake). I have 5 amplifiers,EC,transport,Dac connected and all the "noise" goes back to ground through that one cord. That one cord is not a bottleneck. Why does it work so well? My guess is that all the components have different internal grounding schemes,some better than others. The important thing is the preamp's SNR is very low to begin with and has a excellent ground scheme. So using it as a sink it dumps all the noise back to ground. PC's that are terminated well,have a good ground pathway, and designed to limit the level of current EMI,will improve sound quality. IMHO

 

[amirm]

To Amir....Circular buLLsH!t bro'.

I have been blinded and won. Then I was blinded with the rig set up via a remote control controlled behind me with between 20-30 witnesses in the room to debunk what spew you have to promote. If the test was lightning fast, then that would be even easier for a 2 year old to detect given the level of components I am currently at, let alone the level of components I was at during the test.

Oh, love to hear more about this test! Do you mind explaining what it was?

You made the challenge. I asked for the parameters. You have still not provided the parameters of the test that would end your BS.

This was the challenge Tom:

What part of that involves me coming to your home on the other side of the country, testing you with different set of cables?

And I have already given you the test parameters in the exercise I outlined to you. It would involve a single blind test where I would switch the cables without you seeing which is which and we repeat this a dozen times and see where the chips fall. I have asked you to run the same test and report back. You don't need me there to do it. You refuse to do that yet keep asking me to come to your place?

Only tests prior too.

This is unacceptable. Put up or shut up.

Tom

I am ready to put up. The parameters are in the quoted image above. Right now I am hearing refusal as I have heard before. Steve, etc. won't even run the test on their own without me present.

 

[RogerD]

Oh, love to hear more about this test! Do you mind explaining what it was?


This was the challenge Tom:

What part of that involves me coming to your home on the other side of the country, testing you with different set of cables?

And I have already given you the test parameters in the exercise I outlined to you. It would involve a single blind test where I would switch the cables without you seeing which is which and we repeat this a dozen times and see where the chips fall. I have asked you to run the same test and report back. You don't need me there to do it. You refuse to do that yet keep asking me to come to your place?


I am ready to put up. The parameters are in the quoted image above. Right now I am hearing refusal as I have heard before. Steve, etc. won't even run the test on their own without me present.

I'm sure the main condition would be your ears,so you need to be present at the black cord vs MB PC challenge....after all it's your 10 large. I'm sure the plane ticket wouldn't be a problem. Your in the audio business,it is a business trip after all.

 

[Nightlord]

Oh my. Do I sense an attitude?

Are you claiming you have absolute, irrefutable knowledge that no one else on the planet has?

Bryston changed their amp (14BSST2) based on the feedback from this test, after the spec was changed it passed. Those guys understood what a good job that was being done here.

Serial numbers to get the right model is mentioned here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77426.0

There's plenty that knows here in Sweden. I can't help if the rest of the world isn't paying attention.

 

[RogerD]

Yup, the best you know is the best you've heard. If I had a nickle every time someone realized an improvement they didn't think was possible or got rid of noise they didn't think existed I'd be rich.

Man,can I identify with that....."it can always get better".

Noise = until it is revealed...you don't know it is there!

Btw and what does revealed noise benefit most? Bass,Bass and more Bass...just to keep on topic.

 

[amirm]

Yup, the best you know is the best you've heard. If I had a nickle every time someone realized an improvement they didn't think was possible or got rid of noise they didn't think existed I'd be rich.

It is a guaranteed outcome. As I explained at the outset, when you change things, you listen far more tentative and now hear things you did not before. Ergo, the change made a difference whether it did or not. And surprisingly, whether you expected it or not. You can even be dead set against the change making an improvement but the outcome will be exactly that.

There is a reason every tweak out there, no matter how implausible, how impossible, how unlikely, has advocates that swear by them. And go as far as killing their fellow audiophile if they don't believe.

The problem is that when we take the knowledge of whether a change is or is not made away, those improvements disappear like a "fart in the wind." These massive differences that even one's wife can hear while walking the dog outside , now become impossible to hear even in one's own system, and one's own music.

As you, I would be rich if I could get a dollar for every time I heard an improvement yet discovered I had not yet made the change I was investigating! And happen the same as testing others.

It is a side of science we are not familiar with but it is so responsible for our improper evaluation. When the science says something is impossible, and you can't hear the change reliably when you only use your ears, the only logical conclusion is that the device is not effective. Searching for other rules of universe yet to be discovered as the explanation that it actually did, is so illogical. But expected given lack of knowledge of our our perception works.

 

[RogerD]

It is a guaranteed outcome. As I explained at the outset, when you change things, you listen far more tentative and now hear things you did not before. Ergo, the change made a difference whether it did or not. And surprisingly, whether you expected it or not. You can even be dead set against the change making an improvement but the outcome will be exactly that.

There is a reason every tweak out there, no matter how implausible, how impossible, how unlikely, has advocates that swear by them. And go as far as killing their fellow audiophile if they don't believe.

The problem is that when we take the knowledge of whether a change is or is not made away, those improvements disappear like a "fart in the wind." These massive differences that even one's wife can hear while walking the dog outside , now become impossible to hear even in one's own system, and one's own music.

As you, I would be rich if I could get a dollar for every time I heard an improvement yet discovered I had not yet made the change I was investigating! And happen the same as testing others.

It is a side of science we are not familiar with but it is so responsible for our improper evaluation. When the science says something is impossible, and you can't hear the change reliably when you only use your ears, the only logical conclusion is that the device is not effective. Searching for other rules of universe yet to be discovered as the explanation that it actually did, is so illogical. But expected given lack of knowledge of our our perception works.

Maybe you could learn something new...eh. If one is limited by ones knowledge,then that is one that will not grow and experience is the seed of knowledge and wisdom.

 

[NorthStar]

Thanks. Would have called that power outlet. Don't use one, have the power distributer hardwired from the fusebox.

Would be this one for here, I guess:
http://www.furutech.com/2013/02/02/1854/

But based on what was claimed before, that it was most important the closer to the amp you get, then would it not with that reasoning be more efficient to put it as close to the amp as possible with http://www.furutech.com/2015/11/18/12057/ ?

I saw the one from your link, and I was thinking about you in Sweden. Yes, we call it a "receptacle" in many parts of the world...I believe.

* Caelin Gabriel from Shunyata Research earlier contributed something solid:

"We highly recommend that people imstall a good dedicated line for their entertainment systems when feasible. Ensuring that the inwall wires are over-rated (12-10 gauge), that the conductors are not spliced, that the neutral is not shared with other circuits, that an independent ground wire is used and that a good commercial grade outlet is used. This should be considered a "baseline" for a quality power system.

The key to good power system performance is to ensure that contacts and connection junctions are reliable and secure. You don't have to spend big money, just take reasonable care in the installation. And after doing all that you don't want to degrade the potential capacity of the circuit by using a current limiting commodity power cord. You don't need to spend thousands to get good performance, just get something consciously constructed with good connectors. Or, as some people have suggested (if you have the ability) build your own DIY cable."
• http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...d-conditioners&p=441303&viewfull=1#post441303
______

I am just a music/movie/life/wildlife/nature/people/planet/universe lover myself. I don't have a specific expertise in all things audio power distribution and management for optimal performance. I do like that quote from Caelin above.

* I think it's good to have a good solid connection where there's no stress (horizontally and vertically) @ the entrance of each cable connector of our systems.
That's why the hi-end gear uses better connectors (XLR) that can lock in place, or RCA plugs that can also be locked in place (eg.; WBA German connectors).
And the same for banana plugs for speakers and amps, spade lugs, AC terminators, etc.
A straight cable connection with a tight fit, without slack, without stress, without weight, without pressure down like some cables that are so heavy that over time they slip.

In the modern/simple world of audio/video signal transmission through a single cable (watch the audiofile's reaction here...) called "HDMI" it is even more essential to have that solid connection as described above. I use this example to emphasize the importance of a "good/solid" connection from all our cables, cords and wires.
{I predict more and more HDMI connectors locking-in feature in the future.}

I also believe in the materials uses; like the purity of the copper (removed of its major flaws under the microscope, bubbles and impurities).
Earlier I said it's not important what we believe, but ultimately we start from there, and then we climb the ladder of audio nirvana;
with better connectors, materials used in audio signals transmission, cleansing of our electrical circuits @ home...meaning making sure that everything conforms to specs, voltage, current, safety, and matching with the audio components we use.

And the better the sound system, the higher resolute it is, like quality speakers using the best electronic parts and mechanical drivers and the materials used of the entire design and assembly, the purer the amps and preamps (devoid of noise and distortion levels), the cleaner everything in the audio signal paths of all components the more we can hear the sound differences between AC power cords and power conditioners and the bass reproduction @ the end of that audio sound "funnel/tunnel".

Our ears are like geometrical measurement tools of very very special properties. In the sense that they accommodate to different environments in space and in time.
It's like they break in slowly to adapt and appreciate the sounds we hear. In ultra hi-end cables it can be similar, as it is often observed that over time the sound improve to our new adaptation, the "new sound". With some new AC power cords the difference is immediate, without time break-in period.

I don't speak from scientific measured experience, just from theoretical readings and strict minimal experience.
The audio scientists with their tools (cable's manufacturers) have the expertise in the field.

Me I am just an observer, a student. I'm open to the best teachers. Because from them I can learn and share with others in the advancement of the beautiful sounds we hear...music ?
______

* Off topic: Someday I might start a thread about how best can we all live together in a world not always easy.
Human psychology is complex, and it too has some logic in play.
That thread would be in the "Wire" forum section...electrical wires of the human brain. :b
______

Bass that becomes more robust...

 

[amirm]

Btw and what does revealed noise benefit most? Bass,Bass and more Bass...just to keep on topic.

Why? I loathe to bring up much science here but I will make an exception . Here is our hearing sensitivity:

At 20 Hz, our sensitive is worse than 80 db than at 3-5 Khz! We literally hear 70 db SPL of noise components at 20 Hz as silence!

You would go mad if you could hear all that rumble all the time in your life.

 

[amirm]

Maybe you could learn something new...eh. If one is limited by ones knowledge,then that is one that will not grow and experience is the seed of knowledge and wisdom.

I learn new things all the time. There are a ton of experts I follow in the field and a day does not go by that I do not pick up something new, read a new paper, research, etc. What I am not going to do is listen to anecdotal reports on forum that goes against the most basics of how to conduct such tests properly. And further, goes against the accepted science and engineering in every fora you look at from ASA to IEEE and AES. You all may be the brighter bulb than everyone who does this work/research professionally. But I put my money on them and my own experience/knowledge of testing countless audiophiles and myself front and center if you don't mind.

Maybe you tell me that doctors routinely take patient experiments with supplements, etc. as the same as drug trials and proceed to throw out their training. I don't know. What I do know is that I asked my doctor if he would put me in touch with some researchers at the local university to test the limits of double blind testing. He just about threw me out of his office. He told me that everything that he is about is conducting such tests blind and that he would have nothing to do with this! He told me to go and do my own research to find such people!