What's best in highly sensitive/efficient speakers.

[KeithR]

It was disappointing to read the reviews of the system featuring the Animas at the T.H.E. Show 2019 in June. It makes me hesitant to make travel plans to go and hear these.

How far to travel? I wouldn't let my show experience influence your auditions - we have different taste anyways.

 

[Exlibris]

How far to travel? I wouldn't let my show experience influence your auditions - we have different taste anyways.

From Toronto to Los Angeles (3,500 kms)
It wasn't just your show experience. I also spoke to another person who attended the show. We have similar sensibilities when it comes to audio and he pretty much echoed what you said.

 

[morricab]

The 45 is a very low watt amp. I think the Anima requires more power and drive especially for the bass, which is probably why the wavac didn't work. Usually the sensitivity readings are only for mids or so.

If anyone wants the duo, thus horns symphonia is a better speaker imo. This retails at only 15k euro.

Nice little montage:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=916963021987391

Duo is half active (bass anyway) hard to compare to a fully passive speaker. Also sensitivity ratings are for the whole speaker not just the mids or highs (again unless bass is active).

 

[morricab]

Would you classify the Odeon 33 as a large speaker system?

My wife would say yes . It’s not small but there are much bigger out there. My La Bohemes are about the same size and are considered by non-audiophiles as huge.

 

[Exlibris]

The 45 is a very low watt amp. I think the Anima requires more power and drive especially for the bass, which is probably why the wavac didn't work. Usually the sensitivity readings are only for mids or so.

If anyone wants the duo, thus horns symphonia is a better speaker imo. This retails at only 15k euro.

Nice little montage:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=916963021987391

I think it's dishonest for a manufacturer to post a high efficiency rating on a speaker if that rating doesn't apply to every driver in that speaker; in other words, the entire speaker. I see speakers with claimed +100dB ratings and I wonder how my 2 watt amp is going to drive those 12" or 15" bass woofers. The answer, of course, is that it can't. The efficiency rating is misleading -- it only applies to part of the speaker.

 

[morricab]

I think it's dishonest for a manufacturer to post a high efficiency rating on a speaker if that rating doesn't apply to every driver in that speaker; in other words, the entire speaker. I see speakers with claimed +100dB ratings and I wonder how my 2 watt amp is going to drive those 12" or 15" bass woofers. The answer, of course, is that it can't. The efficiency rating is misleading -- it only applies to part of the speaker.

Just because a woofer is big has nothing to do with whether or not it can be driven by a 2 watt amp. Most big pro woofers are quite high sensitivity and easy loads. I am pretty sure the sensitivity for the Tune speaker is for the whole speaker.

 

[Exlibris]

Just because a woofer is big has nothing to do with whether or not it can be driven by a 2 watt amp. Most big pro woofers are quite high sensitivity and easy loads. I am pretty sure the sensitivity for the Tune speaker is for the whole speaker.

That's good to know; thanks. It's not true for the Universum III, however -- I asked the manufacturer.

 

[bonzo75]

From Toronto to Los Angeles (3,500 kms)
It wasn't just your show experience. I also spoke to another person who attended the show. We have similar sensibilities when it comes to audio and he pretty much echoed what you said.

Which means the show set up was the issue. So everyone at the show might say the same thing. Says nothing whether you will like the speaker or not

 

[Exlibris]

Which means the show set up was the issue. So everyone at the show might say the same thing. Says nothing whether you will like the speaker or not

Logically, that just means that there is one or more common element that made the sound bad for everyone. It could be the room, the set up, the speakers, or something else. But I take your point.

 

[Exlibris]

Logically, that just means that there is one or more common element that made the sound bad for everyone. It could be the room, the set up, the speakers, or something else. But I take your point.

And, if I fly to LA, it's going to be this same system, set up by these same guys, that I'll be hearing. To morricab's point over on the other thread -- I personally don't think there is an excuse for getting the sound really wrong at a show.

 

[bonzo75]

I don't think these will work with your amps. I think very few will work with Mayer 46, best to stay with your current speakers or DIY something with high efficiency drivers like some vintage drivers, or an AER driver but that's expensive.

 

[bonzo75]

And, if I fly to LA, it's going to be this same system, set up by these same guys, that I'll be hearing. To morricab's point over on the other thread -- I personally don't think there is an excuse for getting the sound really wrong at a show.

Shows get sounds wrong all the time. Using our own beliefs and logic doesn't help anybody. What is, is.

 

[Exlibris]

I don't think these will work with your amps. I think very few will work with Mayer 46, best to stay with your current speakers or DIY something with high efficiency drivers like some vintage drivers, or an AER driver but that's expensive.

Just to clarify, I have a Mayer 45/2A3.

 

[manisandher]

Just because a woofer is big has nothing to do with whether or not it can be driven by a 2 watt amp. Most big pro woofers are quite high sensitivity and easy loads. I am pretty sure the sensitivity for the Tune speaker is for the whole speaker.

Yes, you'd think that any sensitivity measurement would be for the whole speaker. Here's measurements taken during a review of the Animas by a French magazine:


It looks like they had the mid horn set to a higher output than the low and high. I'm not sure how they arrived at the 108.5dB/w@1m sensitivity - taken at 200Hz perhaps? In any event, there's a clear fall in sensitivity below 200Hz (5dB or so?), and then more so below 50Hz (5-10dB?).

With no sub, my preference is to reduce the output of the mid and high horns to get a more even balance, and live with an overall lower sensitivity. This is one of the reasons why I use a relatively powerful amp.

Mani.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Any chance you can get to the crossover? I think the bass driven actively might help.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

This is the problem with no standards of measurement. Personally I think it should be an area under curve for the claimed frequency response or similar.

It seems that the Anima bass chimney isn’t doing much for the bass efficiency at all.

 

[manisandher]

It seems that the Anima bass chimney isn’t doing much for the bass efficiency at all.

Looking at the graph, >50Hz, the sensitivity looks to be well over 100dB. Would a 15" driver in a box be able to achieve this?

Mani.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Looking at the graph, >50Hz, the sensitivity looks to be well over 100dB. Would a 15" driver in a box be able to achieve this?

Mani.

Depends on the driver Mani. The most extreme 15” I know of in this regard is the 15” Maxonic woofer claiming 105dB in free air. Many pro 15” are rated at 100dB in free air.

The issue is the huge drop relative to the other horns.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Just to clarify, I have a Mayer 45/2A3.

I have only heard the Animas powered with 300B SET and a Bakoon (8-12 watts range) at the lower end of amp wattages, plus with a 24 watt PSE. I have heard it with a larger class A SS as well. My mate with the Animas has talked about trying a 2A3 based amp on them but hasn’t so I can’t say but that possibly may be on the critical edge driving the 15 inch even in a smallish room.

 

[manisandher]

I suspect my setup, with the mid and high horns reduced, is closer to this (thick red line):


So my overall sensitivity could be as low as ~102dB/w@1m. But I prefer the balance.

Yes, I could try bi- or tri-amping the Animas and then use each horn to its maximum sensitivity (assuming I could adjust the gain of the amps accordingly). But my 'issue' is that I'm perfectly happy with the sound I have, and really don't have the motivation to change anything.

Mani.