Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!

[Bodhi]

Having all the time and making all the effort in a home set-up is different. But yes, those are not speakers that you can simply drop in a room and expect instant miracles from.

I've found the most important thing with any setup is room-speaker coupling. In my medium size room, I found it relatively easy to get a good setup with my S5 Mk2's using the basic Cardas room setup guide. Being a sealed box design, they can be placed relatively close to the front wall which is helpful in a living/dining situation. And the diamond-coated BE tweeters have better off-axis response compared to the previous generation, hence I found they required less toe-in than my old S5 Mk1's.

From my POV, the main culprit in most of Magico's rooms at the MOC this year was the accompanying equipment. Personally I would've loved to have paired the M2's with the new Vitus SIA-030, UHA Ultima 4 tape deck, Tech Das AF3 Premium, Gigawatt Evo conditioner & Stillpoints Aperture II panels. I think that would've nailed plenty of bums on seats. That said, I think this side discussion has probably gone on long enough & the point re: the thread title is well made. Back to normal programming..

 

[microstrip]

Shows have excellent sounding rooms in many cases. For that to be missed on countless Magico setups defies the law of reasonableness. In many cases with excellent quality ancillaries.

One day, however, I may be impressed. Anything is possible

You liking them is fine by me BTW. It just appears that no matter what I don't.

Many people report excellent sound in Magico setups in many rooms - we could think that if you missed them all it has some particular meaning - the more logical seems to be you probably do not enjoy the type of sound and magic Magico wants to transmit.

 

[Zero000]

Many people report excellent sound in Magico setups in many rooms - we could think that if you missed them all it has some particular meaning - the more logical seems to be you probably do not enjoy the type of sound and magic Magico wants to transmit.

That would appear to be correct.

 

[cannata]

Been to Munich heard them both. People here seem to be discovering planars for the first time?? They have their strengths, they always did, but they have their weakness. None had changed with the Alsyvox. Perhaps the aging population of audiophiles can ignore the shimmering better, but I am not there yet, I can assure you that if measured, the top will be tilted big time (couldn’t stay in the room for more than 2 min – btw, I can hear that in the videos posted here by Rhapsody as well, not the way music sounds to me). Most of the Magico rooms in Munich were setup reasonably fine, the M6 in the Soulution was the best I have heard. Don’t see the point of arguing the setups; people have different priorities and can ignore major sound quality issues. I am on my 3rd pair of Magico, nothing complicated about setup, you just need to be precise.

 

[Zero000]

If you mean tilted upwards for the Alsyvox I could agree with that.

For Magicos I would say they are titled downwards.

Two opposite extremes. If you like one liking the other will be hard.

I know my speakers at home genuinely are very close to flat (plus/minus 2.5 DB all the way 1/3 octave filtering) from about 150Hz upwards at the listening chair and they do sound less bright than the Alsyvox did.

I have the luxury of being able to tweak my crossovers myself, though.

The trouble with making comparisons with something recorded via a Samsung phone is that its mic will NOT be flat. All bets are off listening to videos of hi-fi though I am convinced many people think they can hear through it.

They can't.

I have to be fair with this post and say I have deliberately pulled my speakers back between 3 KHz and 8 KHz to be around -2.5DB down in the middle of that range because I prefer it that way.

 

[cannata]

Like I said, I was there, the shimmering is real. But there are other issues as well. The unspecificity of sound stage and imaging, will be a major one for me.

 

[dr k]

Been to Munich heard them both. People here seem to be discovering planars for the first time?? They have their strengths, they always did, but they have their weakness. None had changed with the Alsyvox. Perhaps the aging population of audiophiles can ignore the shimmering better, but I am not there yet, I can assure you that if measured, the top will be tilted big time (couldn’t stay in the room for more than 2 min – btw, I can hear that in the videos posted here by Rhapsody as well, not the way music sounds to me). Most of the Magico rooms in Munich were setup reasonably fine, the M6 in the Soulution was the best I have heard. Don’t see the point of arguing the setups; people have different priorities and can ignore major sound quality issues. I am on my 3rd pair of Magico, nothing complicated about setup, you just need to be precise.

I get your point. I thought that I didn't like the Magico sound, too sterile and bright. However at the last AXPONA, it was the first time I was impressed with Magico in the 14 years listening to them at shows and dealers, one with a dedicated large $200k treated audio room. So 1 out of around 10 times, it tickled my fancy. The difference was the Magicos (plus coffin sized subwoofers) at Axpona was set up in a huge hall, so room boundary was not an issue.

But Alsyvox top end tilted big time? Objectively no, according to Daniele who designed it to be flat in the high freqencies. Subjectively, that depends on one's taste. And you can hear the tilted high end solely attibuted to Alsyvox on a Youtube video recorded through a smart phone and heard through your computer? You must have special hearing that no one else has. To be fair, one can claim the same about Magico.

 

[dr k]

Like I said, I was there, the shimmering is real. But there are other issues as well. The unspecificity of sound stage and imaging, will be a major one for me.

I was there and the "shimmering" wasn't real. So where do we go from here? Everyone has there biases and hear differently.

 

[Zero000]

I was there and the "shimmering" wasn't real. So where do we go from here? Everyone has there biases and hear differently.

I agree with you I hear shimmer in Alsyvox and Apogee ribbons.

That's one reason I like the Luxman amp I am using at the moment. It keeps shimmer at about the right level. But then again speakers must be able to portray shimmer, and if it can't, it sucks. Go stand by a symbol when a drummer hits one. It shimmers!!!

If the speaker can portray that shimmer it is closer to the truth. If you don't like the sound of it Magicos and Gobel Divin should be closer to your ticket.

EDIT: meant to quote cannata.

 

[dr k]

I agree with you I hear shimmer in Alsyvox and Apogee ribbons.

That's one reason I like the Luxman amp I am using at the moment. It keeps shimmer at about the right level. But then again speakers must be able to portray shimmer, and if it can't, it sucks. Go stand by a symbol when a drummer hits one. It shimmers!!!

If the speaker can portray that shimmer it is closer to the truth. If you don't like the sound of it Magicos and Gobel Divin should be closer to your ticket.

EDIT: meant to quote cannata.

Yes, that's why I put "shimmer" in quotes. I believe the poster meant it in a negative way, as in not real or inaccurate. Cymbals should shimmer, and ribbon does the best job of all the tweeter I've heard in 35 years in this hobby. I think ribbon tweeters are the most accurate tweeters you can buy (better than diamond, beryllium, plasma, etc). The real issue is making the ribbon tweeter integrate with the midrange and lower frequencies, but that's where Alsyvox and Apogees excels, unlike Magnepan.

 

[Zero000]

Yes, that's why I put "shimmer" in quotes. I believe the poster meant it in a negative way, as in not real or inaccurate. Cymbals should shimmer, and ribbon does the best job of all the tweeter I've heard in 35 years in this hobby. I think ribbon tweeters are the most accurate tweeters you can buy (better than diamond, beryllium, plasma, etc). The real issue is making the ribbon tweeter integrate with the midrange and lower frequencies, but that's where Alsyvox and Apogees excels, unlike Magnepan.

Correct I agree.

I think the Gobel Divin has a small ribbon tweeter in it but it can't do what an Alsyvox or Apogee can. And I also agree Maggie's can't either. And for that matter any Martin Logan etc etc.

 

[cannata]

The shimmering is a byproduct of the metal ribbons, not just the tilted fqs. It's a metallic coloration, associated with ALL metal ribbons. Sounds great on violins (and Cymbals) , but not at all on classical guitar or vocals. Again, you can actually hear it on the videos (and in the real).

 

[dr k]

The shimmering is a byproduct of the metal ribbons, not just the tilted fqs. It's a metallic coloration, associated with ALL metal ribbons. Sounds great on violins (and Cymbals) , but not at all on classical guitar or vocals. Again, you can actually hear it on the videos (and in the real).

I play the classical guitar. Apogee, Alsyvox, and electrostats are the best in reproducing the classical guitar and vocals to my ear. I get it. You don't like ribbons. But being so dogmatic won't convince anyone, no matter how many times you repeat your views.

BTW, do you know of a ribbon driver that doesn't use metal?

 

[Al M.]

I get your point. I thought that I didn't like the Magico sound, too sterile and bright. However at the last AXPONA, it was the first time I was impressed with Magico in the 14 years listening to them at shows and dealers, one with a dedicated large $200k treated audio room. So 1 out of around 10 times, it tickled my fancy. The difference was the Magicos (plus coffin sized subwoofers) at Axpona was set up in a huge hall, so room boundary was not an issue.

Too sterile and bright. Yup, bad speaker set-up, mismatch with ancillary gear (the speakers easily expose flaws), or both. Well-adjusted Magico's don't sound sterile and bright.

Well, some may like to set them up that way, but I don't care about that kind of taste, given that I use unamplified live music as reference.

 

[dr k]

Like I said, I was there, the shimmering is real. But there are other issues as well. The unspecificity of sound stage and imaging, will be a major one for me.

Unspecificity of sound stage and imaging? Most of the time, planar line source speakers have more believable sound stage and imaging than hyper realistic pin point imaging and smaller sound stage most cone speakers provide. Dunno. I've been going to classical concerts all my life including some excellent ones like the Boston Symphony Hall, and I don't hear the ultra precise imaging and smaller sound stage that many high end cone speakers. I do agree the sound stage and imaging of planars can be more diffuse than your traditional cone speakers. But which is more accurate depends on what type of music you listen to and how the recording was made.

 

[cannata]

And now who is being dogmatic?
Read about the way a line source (vs point source), propagate sound and come back to us.

Also, make sure you use proper strings on your classical guitar (Nylon that is )

 

[thomask]

Come on guys!

Please grow up.

You guys act like teenage girls.

Each audio gear has pros and cons.

Also they are heavily dependent on space and ancillary gears.

Both Alsyvox and Magico have excellent potential for good sound.

It is up to the users.


Dear administrator.

Please shut this thread down.

I can not tolerate it.

 

[analogsa]

Been to Munich heard them both.

My impressions are extremely close. Could easily live with Magicos but living with the ultrabright Alsyvox would be hell for me.

 

[dr k]

And now who is being dogmatic?
Read about the way a line source (vs point source), propagate sound and come back to us.

Also, make sure you use proper strings on your classical guitar (Nylon that is )

Now you just sound foolish. You're on my ignore list.

 

[Zero000]

You have to wonder why we all bother posting sometimes.

We should all realise we're talking subjective rubbish that no matter how well we express it, means something different to the writer and reader.

Sure there's some common ground. But it isn't exact enough to hold any true meaning.

Buy what you like and enjoy it