State-of-the-Art Digital

[Mdp632]

@caesar Very true. For example. Another forum in which I'm no longer participating in or reading. In which a recently deleted thread a member ; who given by their comments are old enough to know of a certain brand.

This individual dismissed the product being discussed as irrelevant because there weren't any modern or recent reviews.

Misguided for sure but, as you mentioned clearly influenced by "Reviews" and or brands that the dealer sells.

A case of authority influence for sure.

 

[Al M.]

Hi Al,

Yes, the reviewers are very influential. Obviously you are extremely engaged, knowledgeable, and passionate about the hobby, but most people are not like you.

Thanks, Caesar. Not sure about the knowledgeable part when it comes to a large diversity of gear, an area where some have much more experience. Yet unlike some other audiophiles I know very well what my own personal priorities are, what I want, and the inevitable compromises I am willing to make. This certainly helps in making choices, and not being confused and torn by each encounter of a system that does some things better, or even much better, than mine -- while at the same time it always has its own inevitable shortcomings. You can't have it all.

There are thousands of products out there and confusion reigns; purchase paralysis sets in due to excessive choice. People that are less engaged in this hobby just don't have the knowledge, energy, patience, time and skill to winnow down the choices. During this type of scenario, most people - as part of human nature - look to authority figures to help them navigate the risks of spending a ton of money on gear.

And obviously, the more reviewers sounding off on a product, the more effective the authority influence technique is.

If you are curious about this and want to go into more depth, check out Cialdini's book called Influence, as he is the world's most renowned expert on the psychology of influence.

Good points.

 

[musicfirst1]

Hi, The Vivaldi Clock adds space, textures and resolution. Things unravel better, in it's own space so to speak and just the fineness of the resolution increases. All of this draws you into the music and a better emotional connection. It's one of those things you hear from the first note and just can't go back to no clock in a Vivaldi set up...

I have sold two MUTEC REF10 clocks into Vivaldi stacks here in Canada with excellent results. Apparently its a thing. Those with V stacks may want to investigate this...

 

[planarman]

The DACs that have been discussed are basically subject to the type of system they are placed in. Specifically, if your system including your speakers hasa certain frequency response if you measure them - that will dictate the type of dac that may be best suited for your system.
I am presently using a pair of GT Audio Works Planar dipole speaker’s that has no crossover on the main panel and the frequency response is essentially one that is mechanically tuned rather than utilizing crossover components.
I have tried gear from Esoteric and DCS And have finally settled on the Lampizator pacific for the most musical sound. I try to listen to as many live recordings as possible as I feel the most connected to the music since there is less manipulation in the recording booth.
If you can get a pair of headphones maybe you can get a sense of the realism of this live
Greg Brown recording. I am located on Long Island and anyone is welcome to hear this incredible system.

 

[jh901]

Hi all, is there an inherent shortcoming to the Playback Designs MPD-8 which is likely disqualifying as a contender versus MSB, dCS, and the like?

 

[chuck]

Hi all, is there an inherent shortcoming to the Playback Designs MPD-8 which is likely disqualifying as a contender versus MSB, dCS, and the like?

Nope. I have heard dCS Vivaldi (both 1.0 and 2.0) and MSB extensively -- both are great DACs. But I bought the Playback Designs MPT8/MPD8 because IMO its better sounding.

 

[jh901]

Nope. I have heard dCS Vivaldi (both 1.0 and 2.0) and MSB extensively -- both are great DACs. But I bought the Playback Designs MPT8/MPD8 because IMO its better sounding.

Interesting. Very cool. Hopefully a few others are in a position to give MPD8 a go. Andreas Koch's gear isn't mentioned too often. I'm really curious to learn if your experience is similar to any others on the forum.

 

[Alpinist]

Nope. I have heard dCS Vivaldi (both 1.0 and 2.0) and MSB extensively -- both are great DACs. But I bought the Playback Designs MPT8/MPD8 because IMO its better sounding.

Hi Chuck,

I had lunch with Lyn Stanley a couple years ago at Axpona and she invited me up to the Playback Designs room to listen to some of her best recordings. Not one to turn down such a gracious offer from such a lovely lady, I had the opportunity to listen to the MPT8/MPD8 for the first time. I was extremely impressed with its natural organic sound. Very listenable and highly enjoyable. What did it sound like? In a word, Lyn.

Enjoy,
Ken

 

[jh901]

Empirical Audio is another forgotten name out there. I can see why such a small firm could be dismissed, but the Playback Designs MPD-8 should have a far, far bigger part of these sota DAC conversations. Well, at least it seems to me it should - it's not as if Andreas Koch hasn't been around pretty much since consumer digital began!

I'm not picking on the thread starter or anyone else, but I can't help but wonder if there's something I don't know. Is it lack of advertising? Is there a reliability or design shortcoming? Maybe it's simply poor distribution?

Sincerely. Any ideas?

 

[chuck]

Empirical Audio is another forgotten name out there. I can see why such a small firm could be dismissed, but the Playback Designs MPD-8 should have a far, far bigger part of these sota DAC conversations. Well, at least it seems to me it should - it's not as if Andreas Koch hasn't been around pretty much since consumer digital began!

I'm not picking on the thread starter or anyone else, but I can't help but wonder if there's something I don't know. Is it lack of advertising? Is there a reliability or design shortcoming? Maybe it's simply poor distribution?

Sincerely. Any ideas?

I agree that Playback Designs should be part of any SOTA digital conversation. I have had the MPT8/MPD8 on pretty much 24/7 for over a year so I doubt reliability is an issue. I like the industrial design and the user interface is very good. The old school Kojak's watch display is cool. I use it 80% as a DAC for my Baetis Reference server/streamer, the other 20% I play SACDs or CDs. As to their marketing, I have no idea. Gary Katayama at Audiophile Zone recommended Playback Designs to me when I was shopping for a DAC. I was looking at dCS, Boulder, MSB, Soulution, Berkeley, and some others I don't recall.

 

[Kingrex]

One problem I see with comparison of anything is how does it integrate into ones system. That is being discussed here which his good. It took a friend coming to my place with a hand full of tweaks to hear what I was leaving a lot on the table.

My digital is quite good for the money. With digital, as well as most other items, you do have to consider budget. My DAC is the base entry level. There are a lot more expensive pieces in the line. But topping out at $12K to $14K, the line does not get a lot of consideration. But it is well worth a listen if you want excellent sound for a reasonable price.

 

[jh901]

I agree that Playback Designs should be part of any SOTA digital conversation. I have had the MPT8/MPD8 on pretty much 24/7 for over a year so I doubt reliability is an issue.

I tend to agree, but I have no personal experience with today's most impressive digital front ends. My MPS-5 has the hardware upgrade from several years back. Had to send out to Andreas for a repair, so it's with FedEx back to me now. Been slumming with my old Logitech Transporter DAC using a much older Rotel as transport (I'm all physical disc these days). Goodness, does one single super weak link make everything fall apart!

Anyhow, I really do hope that a few members will have some insight on the MPD8. Might worth it for a few members to share the cost and send it around for a few weeks each before selling. I guess I don't know how most of the top tier audiophiles demo enough high dollar gear in their own systems.

Gary Katayama at Audiophile Zone recommended Playback Designs to me when I was shopping for a DAC. I was looking at dCS, Boulder, MSB, Soulution, Berkeley, and some others I don't recall.

You weren't messing around! I rarely see a thread of this kind where MPD8 is even mentioned. Perhaps we'll find out why.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i owned the very first MPS-5 Playback Designs digital player ever produced back in late 2005, and owned it for 9 years. great product. when i now hear the Playback Designs at shows it's always top notch sound. Andreas also designs OEM dac boards for other brands, such as Nagra.

why do some brands get recognition, and others don't? not a simple answer, but partly it depends on the owners of those products and how enthusiastic they might be over time. for years i posted about Playback Designs and they sold lots of dacs. i moved on. ownership of Playback Design changed. more recent customers have not been as active in talking about them. it's up to each brand to earn the support and energy behind the brand. the marketplace does not owe any brand anything, good 'vibe' must be earned.

i sure agree Playback Designs makes great products, and i wish Andreas only the best.

 

[christoph]

I agree that Playback Designs should be part of any SOTA digital conversation. I have had the MPT8/MPD8 on pretty much 24/7 for over a year so I doubt reliability is an issue. I like the industrial design and the user interface is very good. The old school Kojak's watch display is cool. I use it 80% as a DAC for my Baetis Reference server/streamer, the other 20% I play SACDs or CDs. As to their marketing, I have no idea. Gary Katayama at Audiophile Zone recommended Playback Designs to me when I was shopping for a DAC. I was looking at dCS, Boulder, MSB, Soulution, Berkeley, and some others I don't recall.

Didn't our chief @Steve Williams have that exact Playback Designs MPD8 DAC before he got his Lampizator Pacific DAC?
Maybe he can say a few words on how they compare...

 

[analyzer]

I have sold two MUTEC REF10 clocks into Vivaldi stacks here in Canada with excellent results. Apparently its a thing. Those with V stacks may want to investigate this...

A close friend of mine has just purchased a DCS clock for his Vivaldi (1.0 with upsampler). At the end of May (if Covid-19 will down) he'll receive the unit; we'll post some listening impression, we're both curious about level of upgrade.
Furthermore... since you're in Canada.... what your opinion about Canadian EMM LABS DA2/DV2 ?
I'm surprised that in a thread about "state of the art digital" the brand has not mentioned already. and yet... the reputation of Ed Meitner in digital is among the highest designers in digital domain.
I found many other brands, and Playback is surely superb, but not EMML. That's strange to me.
my best
Marco

 

[Derekw14]

Innuous Statement + Lampizator Pacific

Innuous Statement + MSB Select

SGM Extreme + Lampizator Pacific

SGM Extreme + MSB Select

What are some other state-of-the-art combinations of streamers and DACs?

How does one decide?

How did you decide?

Hi all - great thread. I also find good DACs challenging (much more than amplifiers or TT, even speakers, with so many great designs a different price points).

I had and absolutely loved the Lampi GG1, especially with 300B, and using the DSD conversion for PCM files. A little euphonic probably, but SO musical.

I then tried the Pacific, and was super impressed with the greater resolution, transparency, and network connectivity, but I ended up missing some of the GG1 warmth. Perhaps I like my music a tad warm/euphonic? although that's not what I'd like to think (I favor a lucid, open, nimble sound, yet absolutely need timbres to be true/full bodied like in live situation or I can't connect with the music).

I previously had a Metronome C8 which I found incredible in resolution, energy and transparency, but a little too analytical/"race car" like to my ears (I preferred the solid state setting over the tube one btw, the latter sounded a little dense and actually not more musical to me).

Another DAC not mentioned in this thread, which I own and find great, is the JRDG Aeris.
I was not expecting to like it that much when I tried it, but it sounds special to my ears, extremely natural and with a great balance between detail/resolution and tone/timbres body. I wish Jeff would update it to include a streamer and Roon, but perhaps is it technically challenging and even detrimental?

Lastly, I have heard stupendous comments about the Mola Mola Tambaqui, but have yet to hear it.

Say safe folks and enjoy music!

 

[jh901]

I'm surprised that in a thread about "state of the art digital" the brand has not mentioned already. and yet... the reputation of Ed Meitner in digital is among the highest designers in digital domain.
I found many other brands, and Playback is surely superb, but not EMML. That's strange to me.
my best

Note that Playback Designs wasn't even a passing thought until 11 pages deep. Gotta be related to "brand energy" or the like as mentioned up-thread. Well, unless we hear from a bunch of folks who have a better explanation.

Who designs the actual D/A conversion for EMM Labs these days? Do they use fpga? Is Andreas Koch involved with the algo? He worked there years ago.

 

[Steve Williams]

Didn't our chief @Steve Williams have that exact Playback Designs MPD8 DAC before he got his Lampizator Pacific DAC?
Maybe he can say a few words on how they compare...

I actually had (and still own) the Playback Designs MPS-5 as did Mike. It performed extremely well. I owned the USB Xll and USB Xlll box which allowed the DSD 64 DAC to be able to play DSD 128 and finally DSD256 before Andreas went off on his own with PlayBack Designs.I have to admit that it was the only DAC I was using for 6 weeks after I received my Taiko Extreme. The sound was darn good for a 12 year old DAC. In fact MikeL paid me a short visit one afternoon while he was here in Orange County on business and I thought he too was impressed with the sound from a 12 yo DAC. Presently since I purchased the Lampi Pacific my Playback Designs MPS-5 has remained on my rack in static display. It served me well and I always appreciated what Andreas Koch could do with his products.However good the MPS-5 is it was totally eclipsed by the Lampi Pacific. Plus it is a tube DAC and my entire system is tubes.

 

[bonzo75]

Dctom also replaced his playback design with his Lampi GG1 three years or so ago and is still delighted

 

[jh901]

I actually had (and still own) the Playback Designs MPS-5 as did Mike. It performed extremely well. However good the MPS-5 is it was totally eclipsed by the Lampi Pacific. Plus it is a tube DAC and my entire system is tubes.

There were some hardware upgrades for the MPS-5 offered a few years ago as well (in addition to any software releases).

I wouldn't expect a "fully upgraded" MPS-5 to compete with today's megabuck DACs, but isn't it odd that MPD-8 is ignored? I'd expect some of you to consider just in case there's a bump in sound quality. It's not too great a leap to believe that the best Lampi may well be eclipsed by the best Playback Designs.

Dctom also replaced his playback design with his Lampi GG1 three years or so ago and is still delighted

Sure, but wouldn't that be presumed?! I'd honestly, sincerely hope that a few of these folks will audition MPD-8. It's as if this unit is non-existent. It is real. I haven't seen a poor review. The design seems as robust as one might hope (for the price).