Natural Sound

[PeterA]

you need more....1.6 kilowatt at 4ohmone best amps ever build forget new things
View attachment 83054

Cool looking, but one reason I got my corner horns is so I could get a low watt SET amp. Different sounds for different tastes.

The 100 watt Lamm M1.1 sounded pretty awesome with my old Magicos.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Cool looking, but one reason I got my corner horns is so I could get a low watt SET amp. Different sounds for different tastes.

The 100 watt Lamm M1.1 sounded pretty awesome with my old Magicos.

i also use set amp 300b (9 watt) at 97 db coax in my open baffles. perfectly sufficient to listen well or louder.

 

[PeterA]

About three weeks ago I mounted an old vdH Colibri XPP that a good friend gave me as a gift about five years ago. I think the cartridge is about ten years old. The "PP" stands for Platinum windings and Plastic body. I tried this on my former SME 30/12 and V-12 arm. I was struck by its amazing ability to portray space and hall ambiance and it sounded completely alive and unrestricted. I was impressed enough to order a Master Signature.

I thought I would give it another try. It is now mounted on the NOS SME 3012R on the back mount of my Micro Seiki SX 8000II turntable. I used the set up technique that ddk taught me and have been listening to and comparing this XPP to my modified Master Signature, also on a NOS SME 3012R. The modified Master Signature looks identical to the Grand Cru pictured below.

I have to say, I slightly prefer the older Colibri. It has an uncanny ability to convey the spatial information of a recording venue. It also has a slightly more "meaty" midrange and fuller, more extended bass. It has a magic that the new vdH just does not quite present. I am just loving it.

 

[tima]

I have to say, I slightly prefer the older Colibri. It has an uncanny ability to convey the spatial information of a recording venue. It also has a slightly more "meaty" midrange and fuller, more extended bass. It has a magic that the new vdH just does not quite present.

Those are interesting comments Peter. Thanks for telling us about your XPP Colbri. Is your Master Sig superior in any way to the older cartridge? Can you say which recordings you used for the comparison?

 

[PeterA]

Hello Tim, the master signature has a lower output (0.25 vs 0.40) so it works better in that sense in my system as I have a greater range of volume control with my preamp. It is also slightly quieter, and it is a slightly better tracker. Also the perspective is not quite as forward which I like on some music especially if it seems the recording perspective is further away.

I used a variety of recordings, including:
Art Pepper +11
Johnny Hartman, once in every life
Beethoven the middle quartets
Holst Savitri
Cantata Domino

 

[jazzdude99]

Hello Tim, the master signature has a lower output (0.25 vs 0.40) so it works better in that sense in my system as I have a greater range of volume control with my preamp. It is also slightly quieter, and it is a slightly better tracker. Also the perspective is not quite as forward which I like on some music especially if it seems the recording perspective is further away.

I used a variety of recordings, including:
Art Pepper +11
Johnny Hartman, once in every life
Beethoven the middle quartets
Holst Savitri
Cantata Domino

I had the great pleasure of visiting Peter this afternoon. Peter lives about an hour from where I do, so an easy trip over for lunch and to hear his fantastic system! Al M joined us as well - great to meet some like minded friends for the first time.

It was really interesting to hear the XPP and Master Signtaure versions of the Colibri on Peter’s horns. We started with the Master Signature - it sounded revolving, and very evenly balanced across the frequency spectrum. What the XPP brought to the table for me was a little more color, more emotion more vivid midrange. They clearly had the same family sound, however the XPP was the winner for me this afternoon.

Really look forward to the return visit at my place!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you very much for this report!

It is very fun when on-line friends get together in person!

 

[morricab]

About three weeks ago I mounted an old vdH Colibri XPP that a good friend gave me as a gift about five years ago. I think the cartridge is about ten years old. The "PP" stands for Platinum windings and Plastic body. I tried this on my former SME 30/12 and V-12 arm. I was struck by its amazing ability to portray space and hall ambiance and it sounded completely alive and unrestricted. I was impressed enough to order a Master Signature.

I thought I would give it another try. It is now mounted on the NOS SME 3012R on the back mount of my Micro Seiki SX 8000II turntable. I used the set up technique that ddk taught me and have been listening to and comparing this XPP to my modified Master Signature, also on a NOS SME 3012R. The modified Master Signature looks identical to the Grand Cru pictured below.

I have to say, I slightly prefer the older Colibri. It has an uncanny ability to convey the spatial information of a recording venue. It also has a slightly more "meaty" midrange and fuller, more extended bass. It has a magic that the new vdH just does not quite present. I am just loving it.


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View attachment 85085

I am wondering if AJ just didn't build the older one better... he is a rather ancient fellow and I am not sure his skills are what they once were...

 

[tima]

I am wondering if AJ just didn't build the older one better... he is a rather ancient fellow and I am not sure his skills are what they once were...

If the MS is the one in the box in his picture, that is a 5R, though better now may not be better then. ... or the headshells, or the alignment ... maybe it doesn't matter. Peter said he 'slightly preferred' the older over the newer. Maybe a different day, a different lunch? I don't have an XPP but the report causes me no sceptism of the Master Sig.

 

[Al M.]

Yes, it was a nice listening session yesterday at Peter's place. It was great to meet you, Andy!

A lot of the music sounded enjoyable, but the highlight of the session was for me a recording that Andy brought, a masterpiece by Stravinsky, "The Flood", a gem from his late, serial period (written in 1962):

Igor Stravinsky, Laurence Harvey, Columbia Symphony Orchestra, Robert Craft - The Flood - A Biblical Allegory Based On Noah And The Ark

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1962 Vinyl release of "The Flood - A Biblical Allegory Based On Noah And The Ark" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

(click on the small image in the link to see all five images enlarged)

It is a quirky piece, with some quirky humor, too. The brief, sudden instrumental flickerings were presented with great vividness and dynamics, as were the vocals. In fact, I would say that the presentation was extraordinarily dynamic overall, and incredibly engaging to me as listener -- a great way to hear this work for the first time. It was Peter's system at its best, for me. We listened with the Colibri XPP, and I was also pleased that I did not miss HF extension, unlike at other times listening to Peter's system. I also found HF extension fine on the other recordings that we listened to, all with the XPP cartridge.

On this particular recording we also did a brief comparison with the Master Signature, and the difference was not subtle, in favor of the XPP cartridge. The presentation had more clarity with the XPP, considerably better dynamics and, as Andy said, more color. It also sounded more open, and with the Master Signature I had again a feeling of somewhat lacking extension and air. There just seemed to be a better synergy of the XPP cartridge with Peter's system. This was a comparison on just one recording though; I joined later in the session, and Andy may have heard more comparisons between the two cartridges.

 

[morricab]

If the MS is the one in the box in his picture, that is a 5R, though better now may not be better then. ... or the headshells, or the alignment ... maybe it doesn't matter. Peter said he 'slightly preferred' the older over the newer. Maybe a different day, a different lunch? I don't have an XPP but the report causes me no sceptism of the Master Sig.

I am not implying the MS is not good either but I think it is pretty well known that the SQ of VDH carts is rather variable, owing to the single fellow making them is never going to make them all to the same quality level...just not possible.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, it was a nice listening session yesterday at Peter's place. It was great to meet you, Andy!

A lot of the music sounded enjoyable, but the highlight of the session was for me a recording that Andy brought, a masterpiece by Stravinsky, "The Flood", a gem from his late, serial period (written in 1962):

Igor Stravinsky, Laurence Harvey, Columbia Symphony Orchestra, Robert Craft - The Flood - A Biblical Allegory Based On Noah And The Ark

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1962 Vinyl release of "The Flood - A Biblical Allegory Based On Noah And The Ark" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

(click on the small image in the link to see all five images enlarged)

It is a quirky piece, with some quirky humor, too. The brief, sudden instrumental flickerings were presented with great vividness and dynamics, as were the vocals. In fact, I would say that the presentation was extraordinarily dynamic overall, and incredibly engaging to me as listener -- a great way to hear this work for the first time. It was Peter's system at its best, for me. We listened with the Colibri XPP, and I was also pleased that I did not miss HF extension, unlike at other times listening to Peter's system. I also found HF extension fine on the other recordings that we listened to, all with the XPP cartridge.

On this particular recording we also did a brief comparison with the Master Signature, and the difference was not subtle, in favor of the XPP cartridge. The presentation had more clarity with the XPP, considerably better dynamics and, as Andy said, more color. It also sounded more open, and with the Master Signature I had again a feeling of somewhat lacking extension and air. There just seemed to be a better synergy of the XPP cartridge with Peter's system. This was a comparison on just one recording though; I joined later in the session, and Andy may have heard more comparisons between the two cartridges.

MS has the highest extension along with the Lyra, possibly more, so if you are finding less extension, there is an issue with the cart or the set up

 

[PeterA]

MS has the highest extension along with the Lyra, possibly more, so if you are finding less extension, there is an issue with the cart or the set up

This is where individual impressions become important. People focus on and hear things differently. Last week an audio dealer who specializes in horns and tubes and vinyl came to hear my system. He did not think there was a lack of high frequency extension with either of the cartridges. He made a comment after I told him that my speakers are two way horns and only go to 15,000 Hz. He seemed impressed that there was no dedicated driver for the higher frequencies. A musician friend of mine thought the same about hi frequencies and he only heard the master signature.

In my rather extensive comparisons between the two cartridges, frequency extension is not the difference I hear. I agree with Andy and the audio dealer that the main difference is more vividness and color or “meat“ on the bones especially in the mid frequencies but also in the bass.

I did not have this impression of the differences between the two cartridges in my former system on the SME table and V12 arm but I did like the XPP enough to decide to order two new Colibris.

The newest or latest and greatest is not always the preferred option.

 

[PeterA]

Yes, it was a nice listening session yesterday at Peter's place. It was great to meet you, Andy!

A lot of the music sounded enjoyable, but the highlight of the session was for me a recording that Andy brought, a masterpiece by Stravinsky, "The Flood", a gem from his late, serial period (written in 1962):

Igor Stravinsky, Laurence Harvey, Columbia Symphony Orchestra, Robert Craft - The Flood - A Biblical Allegory Based On Noah And The Ark

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1962 Vinyl release of "The Flood - A Biblical Allegory Based On Noah And The Ark" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

(click on the small image in the link to see all five images enlarged)

It is a quirky piece, with some quirky humor, too. The brief, sudden instrumental flickerings were presented with great vividness and dynamics, as were the vocals. In fact, I would say that the presentation was extraordinarily dynamic overall, and incredibly engaging to me as listener -- a great way to hear this work for the first time. It was Peter's system at its best, for me. We listened with the Colibri XPP, and I was also pleased that I did not miss HF extension, unlike at other times listening to Peter's system. I also found HF extension fine on the other recordings that we listened to, all with the XPP cartridge.

On this particular recording we also did a brief comparison with the Master Signature, and the difference was not subtle, in favor of the XPP cartridge. The presentation had more clarity with the XPP, considerably better dynamics and, as Andy said, more color. It also sounded more open, and with the Master Signature I had again a feeling of somewhat lacking extension and air. There just seemed to be a better synergy of the XPP cartridge with Peter's system. This was a comparison on just one recording though; I joined later in the session, and Andy may have heard more comparisons between the two cartridges.

I enjoyed that recording as well Al. Thank you for sharing the details. It was nice of you to join us towards the end of the afternoon. I’m glad you enjoyed the XPP on the back arm.

 

[bonzo75]

This is where individual impressions become important. People focus on and hear things differently. Last week an audio dealer who specializes in horns and tubes and vinyl came to hear my system. He did not think there was a lack of high frequency extension with either of the cartridges. He made a comment after I told him at my speakers are two way horns and only go to 15,000 Hz. He seemed impressed that there was no dedicated driver for the higher frequencies. A musician friend of mine thought the same about I frequencies and he only heard the master signature.

In my rather extensive comparisons between the two cartridges, frequency extension is not the difference I hear. I agree with Andy and the audio dealer that the main difference is more vividness and color or “meat“ on the bones especially in the mid frequencies but also in the bass.

I did not have this impression of the differences between the two cartridges in my former system on the SME table and V12 arm but I did like the XPP enough to decide to order two new Colibris.

The newest or latest and greatest is not always the preferred option.

This is the first record I have heard of the older colibri being better. The newer ones were meant to be his best and with a more efficient magnet, and certainly when the stradivarius series started, first with crimson, then colibri XGW strad and then the MS, Schick and Shroeder took to it i the WE room and Kevin in the Living Voice room. Kevin did not distribute it, he was distributor for Fuuga. He used that too.

Andre Jennings compared the two in his review https://www.theabsolutesound.com/ar...varius-and-colibri-xgw-signature-stradivarius

"I’ve owned a low-output Colibri XGP (with a 0.28mV output at 5.6cm/sec) for several years. In my TAS review of the Pear Audio Blue Kid Thomas ’table (Issue 244), I described my Colibri XGP as having the character of clarity, speed, low-frequency warmth, non-aggressive behavior (with careful setup), and well-controlled (but generous) high frequencies. (Expanding on this a bit further I would add that it also has a general sweetness and smoothness in those upper-mid to high frequencies.)

This description also applies to the general sound of the Crimson—a personality that clarifies and brings forward the presence region with a lucidity that is unique. The Colibri XGW Signature Stradivarius takes those characteristics, shakes off a bit of the sweetness, and adds a huge dose of authority to every aspect. This is not just the result of its 0.75mV output level. The Koa-bodied Signature Stradivarius is also more dynamic (both micro and macro) and livelier-sounding than the Colibri XGP, has a larger soundstage, produces more powerful transients, is more propulsive, and offers more clarity of musical presentation. The Colibri XGW Stradivarius’ personality is even more flamboyant than that of its siblings."

He had specifically designed the later colibri strad to increase the previous one's output from 0.38 to 0.7. You mentioned that in the Pass you found the MS better, from the posts you made then, IIRC. You have now since getting Lamm reduced the output.

It is possible you have a very good XPP sample and a different MS sample. Given his inconsistency I would not make a call or new vs old. Mike owned about ten of them and always searched for the magic in one of his older colibris that he never found again.

 

[Steve Williams]

I am wondering if AJ just didn't build the older one better... he is a rather ancient fellow and I am not sure his skills are what they once were...

I think they are every bit as good and maybe even better

 

[shakti]

XPP Colibri do have a very high Coil Resistance due to the platinum wire.
Depending on the Phono stage used, some of the difference may be related to the different Impedance match.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i had 7 vdH Colibri's between 2001 and 2010. my favorite was a polycarbonate body, copper windings, 'X' body shape. 'XCP'. various versions had 'W' wood bodies, 'P' platinum or 'G' gold windings, all were the 'X' body.

formidable cartridges, every one different. none had the cantilever aligned with the body. all had different length cantilevers. Mik still has a drawer full of them.

Ked is right, the first one was my love, formula 1 for music in the finest form, and when i 'hurt' it, i could never find it's former glory (in spite of a few trips to Arnie), or find another to take it's place. finally the solution was a Lyra Olympus SL, which did float my boat for a few years. but the Olympus could not dig out the drama like the Colibri, it had that 'touch of mink' instead.

how did those early one's compare to the last 3 more recent Colibri's?

different. the newer one's are more laid back relatively as a group. more space, but not as direct sounding. i'm generalizing, and this is now almost 3 years since i had one mounted in my system.

 

[PeterA]

i had 7 vdH Colibri's between 2001 and 2010. my favorite was a polycarbonate body, copper windings, 'X' body shape. 'XCP'. various versions had 'W' wood bodies, 'P' platinum or 'G' gold windings, all were the 'X' body.

formidable cartridges, every one different. none had the cantilever aligned with the body. all had different length cantilevers. Mik still has a drawer full of them.

Ked is right, the first one was my love, formula 1 for music in the finest form, and when i 'hurt' it, i could never find it's former glory (in spite of a few trips to Arnie), or find another to take it's place. finally the solution was a Lyra Olympus SL, which did float my boat for a few years. but the Olympus could not dig out the drama like the Colibri, it had that 'touch of mink' instead.

how did those early one's compare to the last 3 more recent Colibri's?

different. the newer one's are more laid back relatively as a group. more space, but not as direct sounding. i'm generalizing, and this is now almost 3 years since i had one mounted in my system.

Mike, Jeffrey_T raves about the Colibri you sold him a couple of years ago. And I have heard from others that it is a particularly special sounding version of these wonderful cartridges. When I visit Jeff, I will take one of my new ones for comparison. I don't think Jeff will ever part with it as it suits his system and tastes extremely well.

 

[Bartolo]

I enjoyed that recording as well Al. Thank you for sharing the details. It was nice of you to join us towards the end of the afternoon. I’m glad you enjoyed the XPP on the back arm.

@PeterA I am not above inviting myself, for the next time you might host a listening get-together. I work in the Seaport and live just west of 128/95.