Alexx V arrive in NJ

An excellent point and one with which I totally agree. If you go back to my original post, my first caveat in discussing this question is that there is no standardised measure (and precious little agreement) when it comes to bass quality. To each his own...

David is a manufacturer (fact). Attempted lifesaver aside:

Your post above is such a cop out for amplifiers costing over $200,000.00 where you have to attempt to aid their bass performance with additional room reenforcement; when the JC-1+ amps in the same system conditions did not require it. As much as the above and the previous posts say about the amplifiers in question, the evaluation methodology says much more about the reviewer. While most things in this hobby are highly subjective, and at time appear all arbitrary, the expectations are that evaluations by professionals should be carried out by methods that are framed within a control set of parameters. The anything goes approach, to try to achieve the “product's maximum possible performance”, detailed above does not lead anyone to possibly reach any meaningful conclusions. Let me repeat, in order to identify the “optimal” conditions all possible permutations need to be evaluated, logistically and fundamentally this is not possible, so for best analysis the test bed should be constrained to the evaluation of the changes that arise from one variable change at a time, in order to asses the relative performance differences between any two components under analysis. After all this is the whole point of reviewers maintaining a reference system.

Since according to your stated “product's maximum possible performance” evaluation methodology, the CH Precision amplifiers are not required for evaluations of future amplifiers, when do the amplifiers go back to CH Precision? Your product review and assessment methodology does not support keeping manufacturers‘ products as the system setup is not maintained consistent.
 
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David is a manufacturer (fact). Attempted lifesaver aside:

Your post above is such a cop out for amplifiers costing over $200,000.00 where you have to attempt to aid their bass performance with additional room reenforcement; when the JC-1+ amps in the same system conditions did not require it. As much as the above and the previous posts say about the amplifiers in question, the evaluation methodology says much more about the reviewer. While most things in this hobby are highly subjective, and at time appear all arbitrary, the expectations are that evaluations by professionals should be carried out by methods that are framed within a control set of parameters. The anything goes approach, to try to achieve the “product's maximum possible performance”, detailed above does not lead anyone to possibly reach any meaningful conclusions. Let me repeat, in order to identify the “optimal” conditions all possible permutations need to be evaluated, logistically and fundamentally this is not possible, so for best analysis the test bed should be constrained to the evaluation of the changes that arise from one variable change at a time, in order to asses the relative performance differences between any two components under analysis. After all this is the whole point of reviewers maintaining a reference system.

Since according to your stated “product's maximum possible performance” evaluation methodology, the CH Precision amplifiers are not required for evaluations of future amplifiers, when do the amplifiers go back to CH Precision? Your product review and assessment methodology does not support keeping manufacturers‘ products as the system setup for some reason
Roy is still defending the indefensible. Maybe their amp comes with a free pair of Nordost Cables ;)
 
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David is a manufacturer (fact). Attempted lifesaver aside:

Your post above is such a cop out for amplifiers costing over $200,000.00 where you have to attempt to aid their bass performance with additional room reenforcement; when the JC-1+ amps in the same system conditions did not require it. As much as the above and the previous posts say about the amplifiers in question, the evaluation methodology says much more about the reviewer. While most things in this hobby are highly subjective, and at time appear all arbitrary, the expectations are that evaluations by professionals should be carried out by methods that are framed within a control set of parameters. The anything goes approach, to try to achieve the “product's maximum possible performance”, detailed above does not lead anyone to possibly reach any meaningful conclusions. Let me repeat, in order to identify the “optimal” conditions all possible permutations need to be evaluated, logistically and fundamentally this is not possible, so for best analysis the test bed should be constrained to the evaluation of the changes that arise from one variable change at a time, in order to asses the relative performance differences between any two components under analysis. After all this is the whole point of reviewers maintaining a reference system.

Since according to your stated “product's maximum possible performance” evaluation methodology, the CH Precision amplifiers are not required for evaluations of future amplifiers, when do the amplifiers go back to CH Precision? Your product review and assessment methodology does not support keeping manufacturers‘ products as the system setup is not maintained consistent.
Check mate!
 
if anything, the Lamm ML3's had it the best as they sat on the SRA Virginia Class (or some sort of purpose built prototype) stands. the big VAC's sat on their power supplies directly on the floor. the darts sat on Box furniture amp stands as this was prior to adding the Herzan/Tana platforms. as it turned out later when i was doing some 'proof of concept' comparing; the floor turned out sounding better than the Box Furniture stands for the dart 458's.....the Herzan and later the Tana much better.

View attachment 86213

View attachment 86214

I continue to feel very fortune that I had the opportunity to compare these three state-of-the-art amplifiers at MikeL's.
 
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Yes Ron, but if you take Roy's POV, the only way you both would have got the very best out of ALL THREE amps, is if Mike would have switched each in and out, while he moved his 4 towers EAs until each sounded at their best. However ABCing the three amps w the EAs in one spot just ain't cutting it.
And then there's you likely preferring one amp/EA position over Mike's preference.
 
Yes Ron, but if you take Roy's POV, the only way you both would have got the very best out of ALL THREE amps, is if Mike would have switched each in and out, while he moved his 4 towers EAs until each sounded at their best. However ABCing the three amps w the EAs in one spot just ain't cutting it.
And then there's you likely preferring one amp/EA position over Mike's preference.

BINGO! maybe would have found out that one of the setups would have been “one of the amp's maximum possible performance” would have had one of the 4 speaker columns outside the barn.
 
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Yes Ron, but if you take Roy's POV, the only way you both would have got the very best out of ALL THREE amps, is if Mike would have switched each in and out, while he moved his 4 towers EAs until each sounded at their best. However ABCing the three amps w the EAs in one spot just ain't cutting it.
And then there's you likely preferring one amp/EA position over Mike's preference.
Did we ever learn how many Hrs the M 10 had on them ?
 
BINGO! maybe would have found out that one of the setups would have been “one of the amp's maximum possible performance” would have had one of the 4 speaker columns outside the barn.
Mike "Call me Al (Fresco)" Lavigne lol.
 
time for football.....just say'n.

Your post should be “deleted for irrelevancy” …just say’n….actually just kidding!!!

It’s Sunday and a beautiful day for everyone to enjoy Futbol, football and Football wherever you are And set this nonsense aside…………..for awhile!
.
 
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Hi Roy,
There’s a missing component in your exchanges with Marty and that’s his taste and what he thinks of as quality bass. We’ve had private exchanges for years and visited one another as well so I somewhat know his requirements when it come bass and they’re very specific to him. I believe you’re looking at these components from your subjective viewpoint and your ideal of quality bass and Marty from his. You make valid points regarding overall setup and system performance but that’s a separate topic IMO.

david
I agree completely .
It one more time demonstrates audio is a personal preference .
There is no one size fits all , there is no whats best .
Each person has their own standard / definition to measure things by
 
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I agree completely .
It one more time demonstrates audio is a personal preference .
There is no one size fits all , there is no whats best .
Each person has their own standard / definition to measure things by

Agree. So with that said. What is the value of a review? What’s the role of the reviewer?
 
Agree. So with that said. What is the value of a review? What’s the role of the reviewer?
I never read magazines anymore to me there is no value , i have burned my fingers to many times .
To many new eras have come and gone , you can fool me 3 times but thats it . :)
However some reviewers that share your taste and are quit honest can be valueable .
I like marc mickaelson but its probably because he likes what i like lol.

I think JA stereophile does a good job , a combi of measurements and listening
For the rest its all talk
Best is to hear things for yourself

Some standarisation in reviewing would be good as you stated , bring in a more scientific approach
 
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Agree. So with that said. What is the value of a review? What’s the role of the reviewer?

I used to find reviews entertaining, and to keep abreast of what is new. I also read them for the music reviews of reissues. I don't buy reissues any more. I let my subscriptions lapse years ago. Listening impressions like what Marty gave in this thread are more valuable, IMO. Fewer conflicts. I learned more in one week listening to four system in Utah with my own music than I did reading all the reviews and going to dealerships. At some point, you have to simply listen and decide for yourself. Exposure helps.
 
I used to find reviews entertaining, and to keep abreast of what is new. I also read them for the music reviews of reissues. I don't buy reissues any more. I let my subscriptions lapse years ago. Listening impressions like what Marty gave in this thread are more valuable, IMO. Fewer conflicts. I learned more in one week listening to four system in Utah with my own music than I did reading all the reviews and going to dealerships. At some point, you have to simply listen and decide for yourself. Exposure helps.

Completely agree. My questions were obviously not to seek knowledge but rather to highlight the issue here. To me these disclosures discredit any observations and conclusions stated in reviews done with this “product's maximum possible performance” methodology. Where there are no set standards or where logic cannot be assumed, there is no value that can be derived.
 
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Audio is whatever you want it to be afaic.
Musicians are not scientists neither are producers.
Its art anything goes

I always find it special if i can hear the artists intention somewhat through a system.
If it gives you a good feeling thats the highest praise of a component afaic
 
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