Axpona 22’ pictures

[AudioLibertarian]

Yeah, the OCD guy is a dealer. I dont see him going through the effort to set up a room. He just sits back and throws rocks. I used to watch some of his videos back during covid but have since stopped. He is one of the people who says that the stuff he sells is magic and everything else sucks. Not cool.

He has quite an elaborate set up of his own listening room, referenced elsewhere.

 

[Elliot G.]

Is the writer Jon Valin I wonder?

yes

 

[Alrainbow]

I was in their room for a while. I like their looks. They look like jewelry and might add up to overall long term listening pleasure. They were very proud of their analogue and went in long about their production and how long it takes to build and all. Sound wise, I liked their tonality and gave a lot of "sparkles", if you can understand what I mean. I can actually live triangle art gears.

Thanks i know them a bit. Was goiig to buy a cart at show price but for got to go back on Sunday after noon. i was in there many times. it does have a big top end but not offensive
what impresses me most is a brand I never hear anyone mention. Makes all except speakers and I think they make them too
yes high jewelry and this I don’t care for much too gaudy
but the speed , presence and scale that great vinyl has was all there. i dislike sleepy half dead vinyl and some rooms had this. maybe it’s my old half naked brain fooling me.
but real live music is what’s there and nicks room too. i wish he had a better cart there. I own two audio tech carts there great but on the twinkle side to me.
thanks for making a comment I don’t sell anything , but I do like to others go see this room. I do this to perfect strangers wandering around. I think it’s a good idea too.

 

[Atmasphere]

If most feedback on big horns sidesteps imaging then how can it sound like live music.

Well of course it isn't. If you ever hear a horn system that isn't imaging well or some of the sounds seem to come from odd places, its either setup or some quirky design; but its not a failing of all horn systems- just that one. I expect horns to image really well, as well as anything else and if not, I leave.

 

[andromedaaudio]

its either setup or some quirky design

So what you re saying is horn demonstrators at dealers and shows are mostly lousy in tuning /set up.
Because i hear also a big integration problem with a lot of horn designs

 

[sbnx]

99% of dealers are not really proficient at speaker setup. In my experience many don’teven have a solid central image on a simple vocal track. I heard this all over the show.

Take the Wilson DAW room. The lower vocal range was fairly centered but move up in frequency (e.g. trumpet) and the sound pulled dramatically right of center.

 

[Atmasphere]

So what you re saying is horn demonstrators at dealers and shows are mostly lousy in tuning /set up.
Because i hear also a big integration problem with a lot of horn designs

It could be. Many horn designs are meant to be driven by amps with a fairly high output impedance (for example, an SET). Since the voltage response of such amps is unknown (the speaker is not meant to be driven by an amp that acts as a voltage source which is an amp that can double power as impedance is halved), there are usually some level controls on the back of the speaker (or should be...) to allow you to set the various drivers in the speaker to the voltage response of the amp. Almost any classic horn system (Klipsch, JBL, Altec, EV) from the old days (before the voltage rules were adopted in the 1960s and 70s) has these controls.

Many people think those controls are there to adjust the speaker to the room. This is false! The correct procedure is to put pink noise through the speaker and adjust the controls for flat response (this has gotten super easy with the app needed for that available for most smartphones or tablets). If the dealer is ignorant of this the speaker may well have had integration problems!

For more on this topic see
http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/resources-paradigms-in-amplifier-design.html

 

[metaphacts]

99% of dealers are not really proficient at speaker setup. In my experience many don’teven have a solid central image on a simple vocal track. I heard this all over the show.

Take the Wilson DAW room. The lower vocal range was fairly centered but move up in frequency (e.g. trumpet) and the sound pulled dramatically right of center.

The Mytek room?

 

[sbnx]

The Mytek room?

I didn't go into that room. Was it good or bad?

Also, I am not picking on Wilson speakers. The DAW is a fine speaker. The setup was wrong. It really came to mind as a certain someone on youtube claimed it as his #2 best room.

 

[sbnx]

in thinking about this. Wilson Audio can probably trace a great deal of it's success as a speaker company to its dealer training program. If dealer A knows how to setup speakers to sound great and dealer B does not then dealer A is going to sell a lot more speakers.

 

[metaphacts]

I didn't go into that room. Was it good or bad?

Also, I am not picking on Wilson speakers. The DAW is a fine speaker. The setup was wrong. It really came to mind as a certain someone on youtube claimed it as his #2 best room.

I was not there. I was just trying to ascertain to which DAW you referred. There were two pair at the show

 

[Alrainbow]

It could be. Many horn designs are meant to be driven by amps with a fairly high output impedance (for example, an SET). Since the voltage response of such amps is unknown (the speaker is not meant to be driven by an amp that acts as a voltage source which is an amp that can double power as impedance is halved), there are usually some level controls on the back of the speaker (or should be...) to allow you to set the various drivers in the speaker to the voltage response of the amp. Almost any classic horn system (Klipsch, JBL, Altec, EV) from the old days (before the voltage rules were adopted in the 1960s and 70s) has these controls.

Many people think those controls are there to adjust the speaker to the room. This is false! The correct procedure is to put pink noise through the speaker and adjust the controls for flat response (this has gotten super easy with the app needed for that available for most smartphones or tablets). If the dealer is ignorant of this the speaker may well have had integration problems!

For more on this topic see
http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/resources-paradigms-in-amplifier-design.html

ralph you seem to point to things i for one never considred as you put it . now having said this be horns or any made speaker the imp curve of the speaker is the alter ego to the amp as you state . but why is it horns that need a flea watt only and has no ill effect as it clips lol . i agree the rear adjustements can be used to level drivers a bit . but how does this work when one driver has a non flat imp curve ??

 

[Alrainbow]

I was not there. I was just trying to ascertain to which DAW you referred. There were two pair at the show

i went into both DAW rooms and the wamm . i did not like any of them but i would not blame the speakers or the setup . its tough at shows to pull things off . if i listed best of show list ill bet many hear would scream at my pics .

 

[sbnx]

I should also mention that I think the bar knew about audiophile pricing. A local beer and a drink was $25. Should have definitely marketed them as audiophile as they made everything sound better.

 

[Atmasphere]

ralph you seem to point to things i for one never considred as you put it . now having said this be horns or any made speaker the imp curve of the speaker is the alter ego to the amp as you state . but why is it horns that need a flea watt only and has no ill effect as it clips lol . i agree the rear adjustements can be used to level drivers a bit . but how does this work when one driver has a non flat imp curve ??

I've had better luck with horns using amps that are not 'flea power'. This in a nutshell results in less distortion. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, most SETs are about 10% distortion at full power. Consider a zero feedback amp that only makes 1% distortion at full power and makes 60 Watts instead of 4. What distortion is that amp making at 4 Watts? The answer is several orders of magnitude less than the SET- resulting in smoother and more detailed sound on account of the lower distortion (distortion causes harshness and obscures detail).

When you get smoother and more detailed (instead of bright and detailed) that's when you're making progress.

Usually a driver properly crossed over has a reasonably flat impedance curve. But no speaker is actually flat! Fortunately the ear/brain system has a tipping point and will ignore minor frequency response variation; it pays far more attention to tonality caused by distortion! The brightness of solid state is a great example- most solid state amps are perfectly flat; the brightness is caused by a tiny amount of higher ordered harmonic distortion which the ear perceives as a tonality. So I wouldn't worry about the impedance curve of the driver, if its controlled by an attenuater in the crossover.

 

[Alrainbow]

Very good reply and I have read this. but of course all the set fans hate you now lol. between the clippy and distortion adding to not enough power to drive them well , it’s a party
but many love this sound and dislike the better SS amp. thanks for an honest reply
i was not knocking the speaker level control only the amps that can’t drive difficult imp curves. of course sone blame the speakers lol.

 

[thomask]

I

It's a friggin TRAVESTY no one is talking about Scaena. Spectacular sound!!!!

I bought all the travel packages and Axpona tickets last year.

But it got cancelled.

This year I could not go since I had something to take care of.

I have yet to assemble Scaena 3.2 that I had bought used 2 years ago.

But I am getting addicted to Altec A7 with active bi amping right now.

It is fun to tune it.

It would have been nice if I could go there this year.

i appreciate many photos and stories done by Mike L and other people.

 

[thomask]

I

I bought all the travel packages and Expona tickets last year.

But it got cancelled.

This year I could not go since I had something to take care of.

I have yet to assemble Scaena 3.1 that I had bought used 20 months ago.

But I am getting addicted to Altec A7 with active bi amping right now.

It is fun to tune it.

It would have been nice if I could go there this year.

i appreciate many photos and stories done by Mike L nd other people.

I am also intrigued by this video.

My Scaena has mother pearl color but with 18 inches woofers.

I may try crazy idea of mating Scaena tower with Altec A7 woofer.

 

[thomask]

I also like this video.

Volti Audio speaker sounds like my Altec A7.

 

[thomask]

I had listened to MBL radial speakers about 15 years ago at CES Las Vegas.

I was not that impressed with it at that time.

But this video sounds very attractive.