Natural Sound

[Lagonda]

There are always those who share, participate and contribute something meaningful and those who watch and giggle adding nothing of value.

Sorry Peter, i am just trying to make people laugh !

 

[tima]

It is a recording on YouTube …obviously not a system video. But it tells you basically what it should sound like. Or you think a system video is better sounding?

Yes, a non-system originated video may tell us what basically it should sound like. To me it is an example but not a reference. Used for comparison to an audio system video, that's not something in which I have interest, not part of my hobby.

It is difficult to assess non-acoustic examples such as rock, electronica beyond personal preference.

 

[PeterA]

It is a recording on YouTube …obviously not a system video. But it tells you basically what it should sound like. Or you think a system video is better sounding?

I agree with Tim that such ”official” videos are not good references. What are they? How are they made? What resolution? What mastering? What version? Is it the same as the digital file you are using? We know it us not the same source as any LP. So why accept that as how an LP “should sound”. It does have the advantage of no system. If you use files, then I see how it could work.

Yes, you can use it as your reference. I prefer to use my memory of the sound of live music. No digital file reminds me of live music.

 

[Al M.]

Yes, you can use it as your reference. I prefer to use my memory of the sound of live music. No digital file reminds me of live music.

You have commented on some of other peoples' videos that they sounded "natural" to you. These videos are digital files. So they did not remind you of live music even though they sounded natural?

And if no digital file reminds you of live music, then you probably wouldn't want to post your own system videos. They are all digital files as well. But emulation of the live music experience is the goal of your Natural Sound system -- live music is your reference --, and this goal then cannot come through in your videos.

 

[PeterA]

You have commented on some of other peoples' videos that they sounded "natural" to you. These videos are digital files. So they did not remind you of live music even though they sounded natural?

And if no digital file reminds you of live music, then you probably wouldn't want to post your own system videos. They are all digital files as well. But emulation of the live music experience is the goal of your Natural Sound system -- live music is your reference --, and this goal then cannot come through in your videos.

No system videos sound like real music Al. Videos are a tool for me and convenient for sharing. I choose to use my memory for reference when assessing system sound from videoe, not some YouTube “official” video. I do not even know what that is. I am describing my methods and not suggesting what you might do.

 

[Al M.]

No system videos sound like real music Al.

That was not my point, Peter. No actual system, without going through a video, sounds like real music either.

I was addressing an apparent inconsistency when it comes to "reminds me of live music", which is your criterion for judging a system.

Obviously, "reminding one of live music" is also not the same as actually "sounding like live music". I guess we can agree on that.

 

[PeterA]

That was not my point, Peter. No actual system, without going through a video, sounds like real music either.

I was addressing an apparent inconsistency when it comes to "reminds me of live music", which is your criterion for judging a system.

Obviously, "reminding one of live music" is also not the same as actually "sounding like live music". I guess we can agree on that.

I was addressing someone’s earlier comment that the “official“ YouTube video should tell us what our systems should sound like over a video. I am disagreeing with that comment. For me, the official video is not a reference. I think we can move on as we are talking past each other.

 

[Ron Resnick]

No digital file reminds me of live music.

Hi Peter,

If "no digital file reminds [you] of live music" how do your recorded videos and Tim's recorded videos and Tang's recorded videos remind you of live music since they, too, are digital recordings?

 

[morricab]

I was addressing someone’s earlier comment that the “official“ YouTube video should tell us what our systems should sound like over a video. I am disagreeing with that comment. For me, the official video is not a reference. I think we can move on as we are talking past each other.

For non-acoustic music the file itself, played through good headphones is probably as close to a reference as you will get. Live unamplified music memory doesn't really apply with processed studio recordings. The fact is that your system video of Blood,sweat and tears track is far away from the sound that I posted, which was a digital file, or Argonaut posted, which was an analog feed to an AD converter. Those two sound quite similar, btw.

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter,

If "no digital file reminds [you] of live music" how do your recorded videos and Tim's recorded videos and Tang's recorded videos remind you of live music since they, too, are digital recordings?

I am talking about the source music, analog vs digital file. This has been discussed multiple times in multiple places. This is why I do not use official YT files as references for system assessment via video. IMO it starts out compromised more than CD and LP.

 

[morricab]

I am talking about the source music, analog vs digital file. This has been discussed multiple times in multiple places. This is why I do not use official YT files as references for system assessment via video. IMO it starts out compromised more than CD and LP.

I bet you would have a harder time distinguishing a YT file of a track from cd or even analog than from a system video.

 

[PeterA]

Ok guys. You use whatever you want as a reference. I will use what I want. I have posted my thoughts on this topic. Many will disagree and some will click laughing emojis. It’s all good. Enjoy your music and the rest of your weekend.

 

[morricab]

Ok guys. You use whatever you want as a reference. I will use what I want. I have posted my thoughts on this topic. Many will disagree and some will click laughing emojis. It’s all good. Enjoy your music and the rest of your weekend.

Sure Peter, thx.

 

[Argonaut]

Indeed. Lots of pearl clutching here, disproportionate to a minor "disturbance".

AL , Indeed … However it would appear that we have morphed away from clutching ones ??????????? to ones breast … to Clutching At Straws !

 

[Argonaut]

It is a recording on YouTube …obviously not a system video. But it tells you basically what it should sound like. Or you think a system video is better sounding?

Quite … An audio file posted online , were the source to be a direct analog signal transcribed off of the physical vinyl record via a pick up cartridge , thence recorded directly off of the phono output, would seem to be rather a valid audio base line of that vinyl record with which to compare ones in room audio system, should one wish to do so .

Perhaps In the event of ones own *in room* recording appearing to be at some distance from the fidelity of such a baseline audio control , then perhaps spending some time reflecting upon the reasons contributing to that scenario , rather than grasping at straws as to why the process seems to be so unfair to you, might prove beneficial.

 

[hopkins]

Quite … An audio file posted online , were the source to be a direct analog signal transcribed off of the physical vinyl record via a pick up cartridge , thence recorded directly off of the phono output, would seem to be rather a valid audio base line of that vinyl record with which to compare ones in room audio system, should one wish to do so .

Let's take a step back.

LMR-Miguel posted comparisons of vinyl versus digital recordings off the outputs of each source:

The differences between sources are minimal when compared to the difference between a source recording and any system recording. Claiming otherwise is simply preposterous.

 

[wil]

Let's take a step back.

LMR-Miguel posted comparisons of vinyl versus digital recordings off the outputs of each source:

The differences between sources are minimal when compared to the difference between a source recording and any system recording. Claiming otherwise is simply preposterous.

All of the system videos sound compromised compared to the YouTube source versions. I suspect the yt sources are far more accurate to the recordings and serve as better reference.

 

[PeterA]

All of the system videos sound compromised compared to the YouTube source versions. I suspect the yt sources are far more accurate to the recordings and serve as better reference.

The YouTube source recording plus the one of the white turntable direct phono output sound to me like MF’s OMA K3 video. They do not sound like music to me. They sound thin and flat. They lack body and weight, and tonal richness. They do not engage me or remind me of the sound of music. Just my opinion.

 

[PeterA]

The Spinning Wheel video marks a pretty intetesting turning point in my system thread and seems to have created quite a debate about videos. The reaction to my posting it is quite different from the other videos I posted just before it. I don’t fully understand it.

I suspect those hesitant to post videos before, will now avoid them because people will immediately post the official YouTube video for comparison. It’ll be interesting to see how this develops.

 

[morricab]

The YouTube source recording plus the one of the white turntable direct phono output sound to me like MF’s OMA K3 video. They do not sound like music to me. They sound thin and flat. They lack body and weight, and tonal richness. They do not engage me or remind me of the sound of music. Just my opinion.

It is very interesting to me how the whole attitude about videos seems to have changed. Some people appreciated them and commented on them and others ignored them. Now people post competing videos and it’s some kind of contest and then those who never do anything with videos come out of nowhere and start criticizing the sound. This is not the acoustic coupled video thread which encourages critique and comment. But somehow, this system thread is now the place to debate system videos.

The Spinning Wheel video marks a pretty dramatic turning point in my system thread and seems to have created animosity and hostility. I don’t fully understand it. American dream people are not clicking the laughing emoji because something is funny. People are clicking it to insult and denigrate and make things personal.

Peter, why are you often trying to play the victim? No one is harassing you about your system but people will comment on what they hear and if they think it’s good or not so good. If it’s close to a file or ripped vinyl as well as other systems…have you really thought about why you post videos?

Is it to get honest feedback that might help it improve your system or is it in the hopes to get validation of your choices or ??