Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[facten]

Thank you for confirming you have never heard top level vinyl, and probably nothing even remotely close to it

Al M , AG no longer here see Tom's post above

 

[Al M.]

Al M , AG no longer here see Tom's post above

Ok, thanks. I deleted my post.

 

[hopkins]

I think the only thing that really comes out of this argument is that at the budget end you get better sound from digital than analogue. That may not be terribly relevant here at WBF, but it is very relevant to 99% of everyone else, which is why streaming dominates the music distribution market.

What is relevant to 99% of everyone else is that streaming is dirt cheap compared to vinyl (or CD).

 

[Kingrex]

The only important Question is
If the vinyl master is *exactly* the same as the digital master , which will sound better ?
Second question is
If most modern masters are digital
How is it possible to vinyl to sound better than digital , Becaue Digital to digital should have 0 loss of quality , where as digital to vinyl , is a totally different story .

Your DAC might suck.

 

[Ron Resnick]

...I *suspect* if a listener put a favorite digital file on a repeat loop for an hour, by the end, they would think things sounded different. And maybe it would sound different, but probably *not* due to the gear. Just a thought (experiment). One could make it two, or three hours. All day long, noting differences along the way.

Do you mean because despite what we think we actually are delusional about what we are hearing?

Eeeesh. If this is true it puts a bullet into much of what we do, what we think we hear, what we report and what we make decisions on in this hobby.

 

[PYP]

Do you mean because despite what we think we actually are delusional about what we are hearing?

Eeeesh. If this is true it puts a bullet into much of what we do, what we think we hear, what we report and what we make decisions on in this hobby.

there are tape loop experiments with a specific sentence repeated. After a while, the listener hears variations of the sentence. The mind starts to riff on the sentence. That is the biocomputer in action.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Eeeesh. If this is true it puts a bullet into much of what we do, what we think we hear, what we report and what we make decisions on in this hobby.

...but would that make it less fun/enjoyable? Perhaps for the folks who write from a position of certitude about what they hear, what's best, and maybe even what's better. I think we neglect the complicated wet-ware component at our own peril. And as far as certitude goes, I'm not sure. Still a lot of fun though.

 

[wil]

Do you mean because despite what we think we actually are delusional about what we are hearing?

Eeeesh. If this is true it puts a bullet into much of what we do, what we think we hear, what we report and what we make decisions on in this hobby.

I think it does!

Isn’t it obvious that our mind and perceptions are not static? This is why I’m loathe to make any kind of judgment about a tweak unless it is exceedingly obvious.

The most important, and wondrous audio component, our brain, is also the most variable component.

 

[Rumpole]

I think it does!

Isn’t it obvious that our mind and perceptions are not static? This is why I’m loathe to make any kind of judgment about a tweak unless it is exceedingly obvious.

The most important, and wondrous audio component, our brain, is also the most variable component.

That's my biggest challenge - I sit down to listen to music and realize I'm distracted by life and can't fully enjoy the music. Sometimes it's difficult to know if the problem is with me or the stereo equipment.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...and my current default position is: the problem is me. Some days, it's just not a good critical listening day.

 

[bonzo75]

Al M , AG no longer here see Tom's post above

he will be back with another user name.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

he will be back with another user name.

if he is hard to recognize then no worries anyway. if he starts down the same Chatbot road then it will be brief.

 

[treitz3]

Hello and good afternoon you, gentlemen. This thread was cleaned up because once again, a seemingly innocent post that teetered on a political topic erupted into a political discussion. We don't talk about politics on this forum and there is good reason for it. That is why it is stated in the TOS of this forum that we do not discuss politics.

Please think about something before you post, if you think the subject borderlines a political discussion. If you have any question about it possibly adding political gas to a smoldering fire? Don't even post about it. It just isn't worth it.

If you see your post(s) missing, it is missing because it was part of the thread cleanup. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....

Tom

 

[treitz3]

Please share the details of that experiment, you will be famous if you can prove that you are able to do this.

Nothing more to really tell. I told people that I could hear a difference and proved it. I believe it was the song, "Spanish Harlem" that was the test song and I was listening to a system that I was unfamiliar with. They switched the source via a remote control behind my back, so I was truly blind as to what I was hearing.

I nailed the differences every time. No one in the room could figure out how I did it, but when I explained to them (in detail and pointing out where and when it occurred) the changes that I heard, then some of them in the room picked up on the differences too. The copy made the pop, clicks and ticks of the LP recording stand out more and this was the main difference I heard. To me, the two were distinguished and easily identifiable.

In general, they basically sounded the same and the differences were negligible.

Why I heard what I heard is within some of the subsequent posts.

Tom

 

[cdk84]

Flipping a record is part and parcel of the enjoyment of Vinyl. It gets you more involved in what you are actually listening to. Rather than just selecting an app, you become part of the process. The table, the arm, the cart, the record, are all a part if it. Each may place you in a different venue to hear the same recording!

The sound, the sound: Vinyl seems to be deeper, richer, warmer, and of a more rounded quality and is unequaled IMO!

This said, there are days when my back won’t allow any walking - i.e. when flipping of records can’t be on the agenda! That’s when I’m glad high end streaming kicks in… But while it’s close I can still tell the difference.

Both are fantastic, but I still prefer Vinyl when possible! Those wholly devoted to digital look at a picture of an album, while I actually hold a physical album. Records aren’t merely purchased, owned, and heard, but they are felt, engaged, and possessed.Thus, more of our natural senses are engaged. IMO, while I sincerely appreciate digital, Vinyl will always remain superior!

Hello Audire,

Not only do I agree with "The table, the arm, the cart, the record, are all a part if it. Each may place you in a different venue to hear the same recording!"

In agreement, may I add to the appreciated physicality of vinyl may I add 'liner notes' to the sensual and intellectual input of the vinyl listening experience please? I'm trained as a cultural contextualist and believe that the written commentary, particularly at its best, adds a genuine dimension of insight into the period in which the music was either created, performed/interpreted or both. This, too, is an aspect of vinyl that does not exist in my experience of streaming. ( and the print is so small on CD notes as to be functionally irrelevant --without benefit of a magnifying glass.

While I'm happy that streaming keeps people linked to music, my strong preference remains vinyl, for the reasons you have mentioned and more. I'm a musician who had put up my instrument for a variety of reasons. My dear friend and audio buddy put together a system that's so natural sounding that I felt the music in my heart and picked up my instrument again.

That was NOT a result of digital playback. And, while I muse that streaming and digital are likely to continue improving, I have a suspicion that my inspiration to resume my direct involvement in instrumental performance would never have occurred without vinyl, and I will Always feel a debt of loyalty and appreciation.

Very Best Wishes and happy Holidays,
David

 

[Kingrex]

Nothing more to really tell. I told people that I could hear a difference and proved it. I believe it was the song, "Spanish Harlem" that was the test song and I was listening to a system that I was unfamiliar with. They switched the source via a remote control behind my back, so I was truly blind as to what I was hearing.

I nailed the differences every time. No one in the room could figure out how I did it, but when I explained to them (in detail and pointing out where and when it occurred) the changes that I heard, then some of them in the room picked up on the differences too. The copy made the pop, clicks and ticks of the LP recording stand out more and this was the main difference I heard. To me, the two were distinguished and easily identifiable.

In general, they basically sounded the same and the differences were negligible.

Why I heard what I heard is within some of the subsequent posts.

Tom

Where is your post on how this test was setup. I can't find it. It sounds like you made a digital copy of a record? Then what. Weren't we talking about a copy of a Digital file can be corrupted. How was the copy made and where was it stored?

 

[treitz3]

This was 13-15 or so years ago, so I do not remember all of the particulars. It was a copy of a CD up against the original. The original recording was a digital copy of an LP playing. My apologies for the confusion.

The test was held at an audio event, which is why there were so many people there.

Tom

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I am just going to say my vinyl sounds way better tonight as my internet is down.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...ha! The vinyl back-up generator. You are ready for the zombie apocalypse.

 

[Al M.]

I am just going to say my vinyl sounds way better tonight as my internet is down.

Well, I don't use the internet for my digital. Fortunately, because I don't have vinyl as a backup source, if the internet's down.