My ARC Ref 3 Phono SE really, really hates MM cartridges

BillK

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2015
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I'm not sure if I have a bum Ref 3 Phono SE or not; I normally use a MC cartridge but it's down at the moment while I am awaiting a new headshell.

This is a strange one - I can't imagine this is normal so I may have to take it to my dealer.

Basically I swapped to an inexpensive MM cart for a bit, and it sounds absolutely HORRIBLE through my Ref 3 Phono SE. The best way I could describe it is "AM Radio" - no real highs, no real lows, mostly midrange.

Comparatively, the built-in preamp on my Audio-Technica AT-LP120XBT-USB sounds absolutely incredible - full range, dynamic, the way my MC sounds on my ARC.

I tried multiple tables and multiple MM carts, and all of the MMs sound horrible where if I connect the same cables to a 1980s receiver, they sound great so it's not the carts.

Yet when I feed it an inverse-RIAA file from my iPhone as a test, it sounds absolutely wonderful as usual.

Any ideas? I can't confirm one way or another until I get my MC back in action.

Bad 47K circuitry? I'd say it was a capacitance issue but I've also tried multiple phono cables with the same result.

I've heard from a few others that they hear the same with their ARC phono stages, but surely someone must be using one with an MM and don't hear garbage…
 

Another Johnson

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Jan 13, 2022
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I recently mounted a Clearaudio Charisma V2.1 MM. I run it through my Ref Phono 3SE to Burmester 088 and 911 mk3. The load is set on 47k and gain is set on low. 25’ Balanced Transparent Reference series hook the 3SE to the 088.

The sound improved over the first 50 hours of play. At this point, over 100 hours in, it sounds quite good. I have several TTs going here. Two of the others are sporting much more expensive LOMC Lyras.

It is not hard to tell which TT/cartridge is being played, but all three sound very good, and I could live long term with any of them.

At least this one MM is playing very nicely with my Ref Phono 3SE.

Edit: it is a shortcoming of the ARC phono preamps that they do not allow you to adjust capacitive load, but my experience is that it’s not a serious shortcoming. Jonathan Carr posted in another thread that you’re actually loading the preamp, not the cartridge. In my experience the ARC phono preamps have been quite robust and aren’t prone to unpleasant responses. I wonder if yours needs some TLC from ARC. Email them. Historically they’ve been good to respond with either a possible fix, or a return authorization. They are fully staffed now, so repairs are getting done in reasonable time frames.

Also, have you tried both inputs? Have you checked to see that equalization is set right? If equalization has been inadvertently set wrong, that is noticeable to my ears very quickly.
 
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mulveling

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Jul 6, 2017
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Definitely sounds like something's wrong with that unit. Maybe the loading or gain isn't getting switched correctly? When I had mine I didn't run MM carts, but I preferred running MC's with an outboard SUT into the Ref 3SE's Low Gain mode @ 47K load - so it was in fact quite like running MM. It was quite tolerant of overload - I must have been feeding it around 10mV at times (coming out of the SUT), and it never broke a sweat.

That configuration is still the about best phono amplification I've heard.
 

BillK

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2015
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Took it to my dealer, they had two tables set up, one with an MC, one with an MM.

The MC sounded absolutely magnificent, as beautiful as I've heard the Ref 3 SE Phono sound.

Then we switched the same LP to the turntable with the MM cart and… instant "AM radio" sound lacking highs and lows with an excess of midrange.

Lots of confusion, as if it were something in the gain stage, like a bad tube, it should show up more with an MC than an MM.

We even played the MC at low gain with no real difference in what we heard other than volume.

My R3SE Phono will likely will be making a trip to Minnesota shortly.

As a side note, previous to the R3SE Phono, I owned a R2SE Phono that had no issues whatsoever with MM.
 
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