Does Analog EQ belong in State of the Art Systems?

Ron Resnick

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I have always had a purist high-end audio philosophy which makes equalizers anathema to me in a high-end audio system. I have always felt that the fewer discrete electrical components an audio signal passes through, and the fewer entire boxes of components an audio signal passes through, the less adulterated is the signal, and the less transparency is sacrificed. (An example of this is many audiophiles' preference for passive TVCs over active line-stage preamplifiers.)

But is this correct -- when the audio signal is already passing through loads of discrete components and a handful of boxes (phono stage, line stage, amplifier) to get to the loudspeakers? And think about how many state-of-the-art loudspeaker systems (for example, Acapella, Avantgarde, Cessaro, Fyne (literally "contour" controls), Genesis Technologies, Von Schweikert Audio) have their own individual driver attenuators or to contour frequency response.

We (the collective hobby "we") spend so much time talking about rolled-off treble response, accentuated treble response, brightness, recessed or over-emphasized midrange, thinness or thickness in the upper bass to lower midrange, peaky moving-coil cartridges, plummy bass adulterating the frequencies above it, etc.

Is a high quality equalizer which would let you target surgically (high Q) one or more bands of the audio frequency spectrum to achieve a subjectively preferable or more natural overall frequency something that should be considered even in purest high-end audio circles?

My purest approach always has been that I would not give up one iota of transparency to achieve manual manipulation of the frequency response curve of the system. But maybe this is wrong? Maybe giving up one or two iotas of transparency to achieve what is subjectively for each of our systems our ideal frequency response is a good trade?
 
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Republicoftexas69

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I have always had a purist high-end audio philosophy which makes equalizers anathema to me in a high-end audio system. I have always felt that the fewer discrete electrical components an audio signal passes through, and the fewer entire boxes of components an audio signal passes through, the less adulterated is the signal, and the less transparency is sacrificed. (An example of this is many audiophiles' preference for passive TVCs over active line-stage preamplifiers.)

But is this correct -- when the audio signal is already passing through loads of discrete components and a handful of boxes (phono stage, line stage, amplifier) to get to the loudspeakers?

We (the collective hobby "we") spend so much time talking about rolled-off treble response, accentuated treble response, brightness, recessed or over-emphasized midrange, thinness or thickness in the upper bass to lower midrange, peaky moving-coil cartridges, plummy bass adulterating the frequencies above it, etc.

Is a high quality equalizer which would let you target surgically one or more bands of the audio frequency spectrum to achieve a subjectively preferable or more natural overall frequency something that should be considered even in purest high-end audio circles?

My purest approach always been that I would not give up one iota of transparency to achieve manual manipulation of the frequency response curve of the system. But maybe this is wrong? Maybe giving up one or two iotas of transparency to achieve what is subjectively for each of our systems our ideal frequency response is a good trade?
Talk about kicking the hornets nest. I hear what you are saying Ron and think there maybe instances where EQ can overcome some shortcomings in cabling and or synergy in some systems.
 

Another Johnson

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Work on the room first. In some situations and for some systems, EQ may be better than no EQ. If you are from the school of thought that you want to shape the music to your own taste, EQ can also help.

I don’t use it, after having tried it in my pre 1990 systems. But some friends love it and consider it essential. Who am I to tell them what they like?

FWIW, I use the automated room correction in my small 5.1 HT. It is nice there.
 

Another Johnson

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Another FWIW, Linn, McIntosh, Martin Logan and others offer their own sophisticated, room correction. Here’s a link to Linn’s.


English- https://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Guide:Space_Optimisation

There are consultants, as well as dealers, who will come to your system and do the setup. The folks who availed themselves of the Linn system back when Linn still had their own forum gave glowing reports of how much this could help. Many people in the UK have smaller rooms, and so this sort of service was considered quite useful.

I’ll add some other links in a minute.

Here’s McIntosh’s


Here’s Martin Logan’s

 
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Ron Resnick

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Another FWIW, Linn, McIntosh, Martin Logan and others offer their own sophisticated, room correction. Here’s a link to Linn’s.


English- https://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Guide:Space_Optimisation

There are consultants, as well as dealers, who will come to your system and do the setup. The folks who availed themselves of the Linn system back when Linn still had their own forum gave glowing reports of how much this could help. Many people in the UK have smaller rooms, and so this sort of service was considered quite useful.

I’ll add some other links in a minute.

Here’s McIntosh’s


Here’s Martin Logan’s

But aren't these digital? The thread is focusing on analog EQ.

Digital EQ is, to many, a whole 'nother layer of ew.
 
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Another Johnson

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But aren't these digital? The thread is focusing on analog EQ.

Digital EQ is, to many, a whole 'nother layer of ew.
i see that now in your title. My favorite analog EQ approaches are those of Rupert Neve. But it takes a lot of skill to use his designs, as good as they are. My thinking is that EQ is EQ. In the end, your goal should be to please yourself. If you feel you need it, then you probably do.

But fix your room first if you can.
 

Bruce B

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Any Mastering engineer worth their metal uses an analog EQ... sometimes several!
Using a tape machine... you're running through an analog EQ for NAB/IES/AES.... same for TT using RIAA..

As someone above said..... Fix Your Room..!!
 

Ron Resnick

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Any Mastering engineer worth their metal uses an analog EQ... sometimes several!
Using a tape machine... you're running through an analog EQ for NAB/IES/AES.... same for TT using RIAA..

As someone above said..... Fix Your Room..!!
Hello Bruce,

Have you ever had occasion to use Manley's Mid-Frequency EQ device?
 
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Brucemck2

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Many moons ago I used a Rives Audio Parc unit and it was superb. It’s limited to under 350hz (as I vaguely recall). They occasionally show up on Audiogon and eBay
 
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Mike Lavigne

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I have always had a purist high-end audio philosophy which makes equalizers anathema to me in a high-end audio system. I have always felt that the fewer discrete electrical components an audio signal passes through, and the fewer entire boxes of components an audio signal passes through, the less adulterated is the signal, and the less transparency is sacrificed. (An example of this is many audiophiles' preference for passive TVCs over active line-stage preamplifiers.)
less schmutz in the signal path is preferred, until it's needed.
But is this correct -- when the audio signal is already passing through loads of discrete components and a handful of boxes (phono stage, line stage, amplifier) to get to the loudspeakers? And think about how many state-of-the-art loudspeaker systems (for example, Acapella, Avantgarde, Cessaro, Fyne (literally "contour" controls), Genesis Technologies, Von Schweikert Audio) have their own individual driver attenuators or to contour frequency response.
the best approach to purity in large scale speaker systems seems to be restricting analog EQ to the lowest octaves, the lower the better. my twin towers are only adjustable under 50hz. even first rate rooms with relatively few issues can still benefit from some low frequency fine tuning assuming whole system integration is the top target.
We (the collective hobby "we") spend so much time talking about rolled-off treble response, accentuated treble response, brightness, recessed or over-emphasized midrange, thinness or thickness in the upper bass to lower midrange, peaky moving-coil cartridges, plummy bass adulterating the frequencies above it, etc.
that's the room mostly and the speaker. EQ'ing out of a high frequency problem is going to end badly. of course there are many levels of rooms and speakers, so there are situations of all shapes and sizes where EQ is the easiest solution. but these set-ups are not aspiring to be SOTA. so we can't learn much from fixing gross problems. dsp has it's place where it does make sense.

we care about analog EQ when we are signal path purists.
Is a high quality equalizer which would let you target surgically (high Q) one or more bands of the audio frequency spectrum to achieve a subjectively preferable or more natural overall frequency something that should be considered even in purest high-end audio circles?
in an ideal music reproduction world our rooms, systems and sources are coherent and sorted out. to hear recordings sound as they were intended to sound, and with optimal realism. we have our reference recordings to judge these things.

mixing music is a different case, where recordings come to the party with all sorts of things, and so global EQ needed to 'find balance and satisfy the client' for that use case.
My purest approach always has been that I would not give up one iota of transparency to achieve manual manipulation of the frequency response curve of the system. But maybe this is wrong? Maybe giving up one or two iotas of transparency to achieve what is subjectively for each of our systems our ideal frequency response is a good trade?
fix the room. if you can't.......then find the best work around and throw out the rule book. all that matters is getting the best net result. so you can enjoy the music. not following dogma.

for some, their living situation priorities with their systems puts restrictions on what can be done. but there are benefits that come with that. all out efforts exact a price too. we make are choices.
 
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DasguteOhr

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Ron Resnick

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When EQ look at pro audio gear with tubes or transformer coupled.the quality
much better then hifi gear and the possibilities for fine adjustment are much higher.

Thank you. I think the most interesting one for our purposes is the Manley Mid-Frequency EQ.

 
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Kal Rubinson

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If an audiophile enjoys analogue sound than I don‘t see digital correction as even a consideration.
Granted. OTOH, if an audiophile enjoys digital sound then I don't see analog correction as acceptable.
 

Analog Scott

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I have always had a purist high-end audio philosophy which makes equalizers anathema to me in a high-end audio system. I have always felt that the fewer discrete electrical components an audio signal passes through, and the fewer entire boxes of components an audio signal passes through, the less adulterated is the signal, and the less transparency is sacrificed. (An example of this is many audiophiles' preference for passive TVCs over active line-stage preamplifiers.)

But is this correct -- when the audio signal is already passing through loads of discrete components and a handful of boxes (phono stage, line stage, amplifier) to get to the loudspeakers? And think about how many state-of-the-art loudspeaker systems (for example, Acapella, Avantgarde, Cessaro, Fyne (literally "contour" controls), Genesis Technologies, Von Schweikert Audio) have their own individual driver attenuators or to contour frequency response.

We (the collective hobby "we") spend so much time talking about rolled-off treble response, accentuated treble response, brightness, recessed or over-emphasized midrange, thinness or thickness in the upper bass to lower midrange, peaky moving-coil cartridges, plummy bass adulterating the frequencies above it, etc.

Is a high quality equalizer which would let you target surgically (high Q) one or more bands of the audio frequency spectrum to achieve a subjectively preferable or more natural overall frequency something that should be considered even in purest high-end audio circles?

My purest approach always has been that I would not give up one iota of transparency to achieve manual manipulation of the frequency response curve of the system. But maybe this is wrong? Maybe giving up one or two iotas of transparency to achieve what is subjectively for each of our systems our ideal frequency response is a good trade?
Analog EQ once had a place in a state of the art stereo system but no longer. There are DSPs that can add the same spice to the recipe with greater control.
 

Brucemck2

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Thank you. I think the most interesting one for our purposes is the Manley Mid-Frequency EQ.

The KMR Wes Audio ngTubeEQ in the link is an impressive piece of tube gear that would provide a lot of flexibility. The Manley device appears to be more a “tone shaper” (similar to the bass/mid/treble controls on old integrated receivers) than a device to address the specific frequency response anomolies typical in residential audiophile settings.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Analog EQ once had a place in a state of the art stereo system but no longer. There are DSPs that can add the same spice to the recipe with greater control.
DSP is undoubtedly a more technically precise solution to EQ problems, but it is a solution which analog purists with state of the art analog systems are likely to find anathema, except, perhaps, for EQing bass below around 100Hz.
 

Ron Resnick

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The KMR Wes Audio ngTubeEQ in the link is an impressive piece of tube gear that would provide a lot of flexibility. The Manley device appears to be more a “tone shaper” (similar to the bass/mid/treble controls on old integrated receivers) than a device to address the specific frequency response anomolies typical in residential audiophile settings.
Is this because you look at the curves on the Manley and concluded that their Q is lower (broader) than the curves on the KMR?

Plus, somehow I trust EveAnna to make more of a "high-end" product, but this is simply speculation. Also, EveAnna makes a version of this device with discrete resistor steps rather than potentiometers, so that might sound very slightly less adulterating.
 

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