Aesthetix Io and Callisto Back to State-of-the-Art

[Ron Resnick]

My new Aesthetix Io Eclipse does not sound like an Io. Don Saltzman told me that his new Callisto Eclipse does not sound like a Callisto.

Don has visited me several times and agrees about the Io. I just spent the evening with Don. Don also has an ARC REF 10 phono stage and an ARC REF 10 line stage. I concur that his Callisto Eclipse does not sound like a Callisto.

Even though Don is back to using the VTL MB-750s rather than the ARC REF 750 amplifiers the new Callisto has elevated Don's whole system to greater transparency, greater midrange to treble openness and air, and greater dynamics. This is now the most dynamic I have ever heard his Magnepan 20.7 system sound.

If you are in the market for a phono stage or for a line stage please dismiss what you think you know historically about sound of the Io and about the sound of the Callisto. All past comparisons between these components and competing components have to be re-run.

Jim White's new in-house wound transformers and other improvements have returned the Io and the Callisto to the state-of-the-art.

 

[Jeffy]

Glad to hear this. Always loved the Aesthetix sound.

 

[Lagonda]

My new Aesthetix Io Eclipse does not sound like an Io. Don Saltzman told me that his new Callisto Eclipse does not sound like a Callisto.

Don has visited me several times and agrees about the Io. I just spent the evening with Don. Don also has an ARC REF 10 phono stage and an ARC REF 10 line stage. I concur that his Callisto Eclipse does not sound like a Callisto.

Even though Don is back to using the VTL MB-750s rather than the ARC REF 750 amplifiers the new Callisto has elevated Don's whole system to greater transparency, greater midrange to treble openness and air, and greater dynamics. This is now the most dynamic I have ever heard his Magnepan 20.7 system sound.

If you are in the market for a phono stage or for a line stage please dismiss what you think you know historically about sound of the Io and about the sound of the Callisto. All past comparisons between these components and competing components have to be re-run.

Jim White's new in-house wound transformers and other improvements have returned the Io and the Callisto to the state-of-the-art.

What are you comparing here Ron ? The old Io you had for many years, directly to the new Io ? Or a memory of your old Io in your previous system compared to the sound of your new Io in your new system ?

 

[Ron Resnick]

What are you comparing here Ron ? The old Io you had for many years, directly to the new Io ? Or a memory of your old Io in your previous system compared to the sound of your new Io in your new system ?

No direct, analytically and methodologically valid comparisons here. Yes, from 18 years of owning an early Io. The sound of my new system is, very broadly speaking, conceptually similar to the sound of the old system. Old VTL amps versus new VTL amps, old Io versus new Io.

Also, I heard Don's original Callisto numerous times in his system.

So my opening post does not pretend to be any sort of review. It is more of a general heads up to suggest that if you are thinking about the Io or the Callisto I encourage you to audition these components anew, and not assume that you know what they sound like today based on your prior experiences with them.

 

[Lagonda]

No direct, analytically and methodologically valid comparisons here. Yes, from 18 years of owning an early Io. The sound of my new system is, very broadly speaking, conceptually similar to the sound of the old system. Old VTL amps versus new VTL amps, old Io versus new Io.

Also, I heard Don's original Callisto numerous times in his system.

So my opening post does not pretend to be any sort of review. It is more of a general heads up to suggest that if you are thinking about the Io or the Callisto I encourage you to audition these components anew, and not assume that you know what they sound like today based on your prior experiences with them.

Got it ! When did they do a major upgrade with new transformers ? I wonder what mine has, it looks identical to yours.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Got it ! When did they do a major upgrade with new transformers ? I wonder what mine has, it looks identical to yours.

i'm not sure. I think Jim started making his own transformers at least a year or two ago.

 

[OGH]

Hi Ron, can you describe in a few words, what was new with the sound from the Io?
thanks, Oystein

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron, can you describe in a few words, what was new with the sound from the Io?
thanks, Oystein

I want to begin answering your question by saying imagine the transparency and neutrality of your favorite SOTA solid-state phono stage, but I have not listened to a SOTA solid-state phono stage in years, so that won't really work.

So instead, let me begin by answering your question by saying I hear a level of transparency and tonal balance neutrality that I would not have expected from an Io; dynamics slightly better than you have ever heard from an Io; with the traditional sense of liquidity and "wetness" and "breath of life" that we value in the Io.

But with the state of the art level of transparency there is no overemphasis of leading edge transients or focus on detail or any of the solid-state reasons we don't have solid state phono stages.

The naturalness and organic-ness we think of with the Io has been preserved. What some people used to describe criticizingly as a hint of "gauziness" in the Io sound is gone.

I think it is a sonically perfect phono stage by contemporary audiophile sensibility standards. By this I mean it does not have a hint of Shindo or of vintage conrad-johnson. (Of course there still is a low residual tube noise level that you would not hear from a crypt-quiet solid-state phono stage.)

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i was very impressed by what i heard from my Aesthetix Io Eclipse, especially after i started rolling tubes. it was dead quiet and super sexy sounding. not sure where i would have gotten to had i continued rolling the tube choices jazdoc had provided me with. i'd say overall it was in the same realm as my 2 power supply EMIA 'silver wound' phono. i prefer the SUT type sound to a high power phono, but really i moved on based on not having room for 3 Io Eclipse huge chassis. with my Wadax just too many boxes.

and i had my very fine CS Port phono w/SUT and very high quality dart phono's in the same system and it was a small cut above those as is the EMIA. if you have room for it and are good rolling tubes it plays at a high level.

 

[Lagonda]

i was very impressed by what i heard from my Aesthetix Io Eclipse, especially after i started rolling tubes. it was dead quiet and super sexy sounding. not sure where i would have gotten to had i continued rolling the tube choices jazdoc had provided me with. i'd say overall it was in the same realm as my 2 power supply EMIA 'silver wound' phono. i prefer the SUT type sound to a high power phono, but really i moved on based on not having room for 3 Io Eclipse huge chassis. with my Wadax just too many boxes.

and i had my very fine CS Port phono w/SUT and very high quality dart phono's in the same system and it was a small cut above those as is the EMIA. if you have room for it and are good rolling tubes it plays at a high level.

What difference do you hear from SUT compared to non SUT setup Mike ? Why do you prefer the SUT sound in your system. You where happy with just the phono in your Dartz for a long time.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

What difference do you hear from SUT compared to non SUT setup Mike ? Why do you prefer the SUT sound in your system.

my sense is that an SUT relates the inner threads and timbral information of music in a deeper way, less processed. a finer musical touch. and more micro-dynamic life. more grainless and liquid. maybe not as big and bold. but my system inherently produces big and bold, so i don't need as much of that from my phono. i just push on the gas pedal a little more. and then get both.

You where happy with just the phono in your Dartz for a long time.

still happy, thrilled even, with both my darTZeel phono sections in my dart pre. but a no holds barred stand alone high quality phono can go a little further. the darts are lower noise than the big Io Eclipse and maybe a little more neutral. but head to head the Io Eclipse does surpass it in the whole. but then i prefer my EMIA to the Io Eclipse by some too. these are all heavy hitters.

 

[Jeffy]

I had the Io as well for 20 years. I now also have the EMIA silver step up and dual power supply phono stage. The EMIA is better more open sounding more relaxed. I have not heard the new Io and would own it if I didn’t have the EMIA.

 

[Lagonda]

my sense is that an SUT relates the inner threads and timbral information of music in a deeper way, less processed. a finer musical touch. and more micro-dynamic life. more grainless and liquid. maybe not as big and bold. but my system inherently produces big and bold, so i don't need as much of that from my phono. i just push on the gas pedal a little more. and then get both.

still happy, thrilled even, with both my darTZeel phono sections in my dart pre. but a no holds barred stand alone high quality phono can go a little further. the darts are lower noise than the big Io Eclipse and maybe a little more neutral. but head to head the Io Eclipse does surpass it in the whole. but then i prefer my EMIA to the Io Eclipse by some too. these are all heavy hitters.

Thank you Mike ! And maybe the SUT shines because fewer active devices are in the signal chain, in the Io you have a lot of active devices in the chain. I think it gives a slightly exaggerated presentation , both dynamically and when it comes to color, but i like the sound. I have not tube rolled.

 

[bonzo75]

my sense is that an SUT relates the inner threads and timbral information of music in a deeper way, less processed. a finer musical touch. and more micro-dynamic life. more grainless and liquid. maybe not as big and bold.

I get this above every time I listen to a good SUT set up. Maybe SUT allows better amplification of the nuances that let us listen to the inner music effortlessly. But then when I go back to a direct phono with internal SUT sometimes I like that too so it becomes difficult to make a definite decision, and I will let the cartridge decide

 

[oldvinyl]

Got it ! When did they do a major upgrade with new transformers ? I wonder what mine has, it looks identical to yours.

As mentioned in the phonostage thread dedicated to the Io, the new transformers are wound in house, have shielding added to protect against RFI/EMI that was not prevalent in the 1990's when the Io was initially designed. I think there are some updates to the connection to the chassis as well for vibration.

The new transformers are marked with Aesthetix label and part numbers. The original ones were Mercury Magnetics (a great supplier).

New transformers would look like this:

 

[oldvinyl]

So instead, let me begin by answering your question by saying I hear a level of transparency and tonal balance neutrality that I would not have expected from an Io; dynamics slightly better than you have ever heard from an Io; with the traditional sense of liquidity and "wetness" and "breath of life" that we value in the Io.

But with the state of the art level of transparency there is no overemphasis of leading edge transients or focus on detail or any of the solid-state reasons we don't have solid state phono stages.

The naturalness and organic-ness we think of with the Io has been preserved. What some people used to describe criticizingly as a hint of "gauziness" in the Io sound is gone.

Ron - much of this is thanks to the StealthCap capacitors. Coupling caps make all the difference in tube amps and phonostage or preamp.

From the Aesthetix website: "The "Stealth Technology" is made possible by a combination of laborious precision handiwork and costly exotic materials including new conductors, dielectrics, and composite resins. The resulting signal has a quieter background, rich and detailed spatial imaging, time focused musical coherence, and a broader more impactful dynamic range."

It really makes a difference. And it matches the intent of the designer.

The power supply updates - new capacitors there too (not StealthCaps) and new transformers really reduce the noise floor.

Boggles the mind that a phonostage I purchased 25 years ago is up-gradable and supported.

 

[jmelm]

I have an a pair of the Atlas Monoblocks (Signature version) and the Pandora DAC (also Signature).

Although I will upgrade the Atlas amps to the Eclipse version, I'm really on the fence about what to do with the Pandora. In short, spending $5K upgrading it to the Eclipse version when there has been zero changes/improvements to the digital side of the unit is difficult to consider.

The DAC portion of the unit has not been upgraded since it was released about a decade ago and frankly I don't know why. Aesthetix has a great enough brand, sound and market potential that upgrading some basic things (like adding I2S and/or Ethernet, upgrading the Wavelength USB to Amanero, enabling native DSD up to 256, etc...or whatever else they can do) just seems strange to me.

I know that specs don't tell the whole story but I feel the build quality and the analog output path -- especially with the new Eclipse upgrades -- warrant a similar upgrade to the digital side. The absence of that means that the Pandora/Romulus are no longer talked about as being among the best DACs in their price range, and I feel Aesthetix brand (and their dealers and their customers) is deserving of such a product. Especially with the increasing trend of streaming & digital audio.

If anyone knows any plans or has better insight into this than me, I'd love to know. But when I called them a few months ago, they were not working on any upgrades to their DACs.

 

[OGH]

oldvinyl - yes, much is due to the stealthcaps and the eclipse upgrade, I agree. I would like the new transformers, of course, but it will have to wait. Maybe some fixes can be made to the old ones? In my system, better rfi protection could be nice but is not a main issue. Reducing the background tube noise is a main issue.

 

[oldvinyl]

oldvinyl - yes, much is due to the stealthcaps and the eclipse upgrade, I agree. I would like the new transformers, of course, but it will have to wait. Maybe some fixes can be made to the old ones? In my system, better rfi protection could be nice but is not a main issue. Reducing the background tube noise is a main issue.

OGH - it is probably not practical to modify the old transformers. From talking with Aesthetix, the new transformers have new cores and are wound in house with additional shielding applied.

The Eclipse updates, the new coupling caps, the new transformers, the new power supply caps will all reduce all internal sources of noise. They will not alter tube noise, other than the overall reduction from other sources. In other words, not much you can do about noisy tubes - other than replace them.

By the way, I use low noise selected tubes in the phono stage and in the power supplies. Every reduction of tube noise helps.

 

[Lagonda]

OGH - it is probably not practical to modify the old transformers. From talking with Aesthetix, the new transformers have new cores and are wound in house with additional shielding applied.

The Eclipse updates, the new coupling caps, the new transformers, the new power supply caps will all reduce all internal sources of noise. They will not alter tube noise, other than the overall reduction from other sources. In other words, not much you can do about noisy tubes - other than replace them.

By the way, I use low noise selected tubes in the phono stage and in the power supplies. Every reduction of tube noise helps.

The new house wound transformers are a result of no longer being able to get the ones they where using before ! And some of the old to new swaps in this thread are made to old model Io's with malfunctioning transformers. No mention of this monumental "upgrade" on Aesthetix website ! You gotta love the internet !